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Posted

Apparently so called organised faith is in recession.  The biblicals alway throw their weight around but seem more desperate than ever which never ceases to boggle my mind sideways.

 

Trying to control the lives of people who do not believe as I do makes no ounce of sense, I will not even try.  Why would I (Or others) allow them to do that?/

They say (Seriously) "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".  So, contradiction is not merely the home of crackpot politicians and tyrants.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Mike1158 said:

Apparently so called organised faith is in recession.  The biblicals alway throw their weight around but seem more desperate than ever which never ceases to boggle my mind sideways.

Not really, for 1 Kings 19:18  and Daniel 3:1-16 is alive and well today. The liberal media just don't report it. If your able, read the Voice of the Martyrs and listen to Mood Radio for a more accurate perspective.  

Trying to control the lives of people who do not believe as I do makes no ounce of sense, I will not even try.  Why would I (Or others) allow them to do that?

Have you always believed as you do now? God is not about control, but about a loving and glorious choice of him or the rancid control that the left demands that you bow to them.

They say (Seriously) "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".  So, contradiction is not merely the home of crackpot politicians and tyrants.

From Matthew 7:12, but read a little further to verses 15-20.

 

Edited by Rick
Posted

The bible is quoted as the word of god, it is in fact the words of a few men.  Conference of Constantinple.........

Posted
8 hours ago, Josh said:

Until it happens; your belief system has the same standing as horoscopes. I am curious if you think the rapture is a thing you will see though.

The Rapture will not happen in our lifetimes. We are already seeing the scope of horrors that occurs before it occurs. 

Posted
6 minutes ago, Mike1158 said:

The bible is quoted as the word of god, it is in fact the words of a few men.  Conference of Constantinple.........

The Bible was written by men inspired and guided by God. An example of this is Deuteronomy 4:2, and 6: 4-9.

 

Posted
19 minutes ago, Rick said:

The Bible was written by men inspired and guided by God. An example of this is Deuteronomy 4:2, and 6: 4-9.

 

The bible was written by men in oreder to control otherr men in the pursuit of power.  The 'deity' was merely a trope to fool the masses.

I believe that 'Religion is politics by any other means'.  So, control in other words.

Posted

Personally I’ll never understand hardcore atheists, given that it’s basically impossible to disprove the existence of a higher power. I’m an agnostic myself but have zero problems with anybody who’s actually religious vs just a scammer, because all major religions boil down to not being a dick. 
 

Personally I’m surprised that polytheism died out, because it would solve the eternal “if god is all powerful then why did he allow Auschwitz” type questions. Good and evil gods fighting it out explains it better. 

Posted

Atheists frequently look rather like religious fundamentalists to me. I like to say that I'm not an atheist, I'm a high functioning agnostic. 😋

 

Posted
7 hours ago, Mike1158 said:

The bible is quoted as the word of god, it is in fact the words of a few men.  Conference of Constantinple.........

Only if you do not believe.  Theologically and traditionally speaking, those people were just selecting which writings were the authentic Word of God and as they were guided by the Holy Spirit, must have got it right. 

This still leaves room for argument as to whether every word is meant to be taken literally, even if real life, God's work, shows otherwise, whether parts are to be taken allegorically, or whether humans are just so fallible compared to God that we've copied his words down wrong or misinterpreted them.

 

Posted
1 hour ago, R011 said:

This still leaves room for argument as to whether every word is meant to be taken literally, even if real life, God's work, shows otherwise, whether parts are to be taken allegorically, or whether humans are just so fallible compared to God that we've copied his words down wrong or misinterpreted them.

The Roman Catholic Church states the Scripture should be interpreted in the light of Church Tradition. This is one of the major controversy points with Protestants.

Posted
2 hours ago, R011 said:

Only if you do not believe.  Theologically and traditionally speaking, those people were just selecting which writings were the authentic Word of God and as they were guided by the Holy Spirit, must have got it right. 

This still leaves room for argument as to whether every word is meant to be taken literally, even if real life, God's work, shows otherwise, whether parts are to be taken allegorically, or whether humans are just so fallible compared to God that we've copied his words down wrong or misinterpreted them.

 

The people were guided by the holy Ghost, so everything they selected is 100% selected by God himself.

Posted
1 hour ago, sunday said:

The Roman Catholic Church states the Scripture should be interpreted in the light of Church Tradition. This is one of the major controversy points with Protestants.

As I understad it, the Church's position is that the univrse is God's direct handiwork while the Bible is the work of humans, divinely inspired, but human nonethe less.  If one seems to contradict the other, then the direct hanndiwork is more authoritative.

Posted

Thread title sounds like an the album title for an 80s college rock band, the type filled with mumbling and guitar feedback.

Posted
On 3/12/2023 at 5:04 AM, seahawk said:

..., because it is the last bulwark against the woke domination and Russia still supports Christian values. 

These are going to need some substantiation. 

Posted
17 hours ago, R011 said:

Only if you do not believe.  Theologically and traditionally speaking, those people were just selecting which writings were the authentic Word of God and as they were guided by the Holy Spirit, must have got it right. 

This still leaves room for argument as to whether every word is meant to be taken literally, even if real life, God's work, shows otherwise, whether parts are to be taken allegorically, or whether humans are just so fallible compared to God that we've copied his words down wrong or misinterpreted them.

 

Well, I fined the desire of religious folk of all denominations, trying to force their beliefs and value's on non believers to be fatuous at best.  Why should non beloevers suffer the control of believers?  It rather takes the rights of the individual and trashes them, imoho, of course.

Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Mike1158 said:

Well, I fined the desire of religious folk of all denominations, trying to force their beliefs and value's on non believers to be fatuous at best.  Why should non beloevers suffer the control of believers?  It rather takes the rights of the individual and trashes them, imoho, of course.

Well, I fined the absolute demands of secular folk of most forms of governmentforcing their social beliefs and value's via monetary penalties and imprisonment on non believers to be fatuous at best.  Why should non beloevers suffer the control of believers?  It rather takes the rights of the individual and trashes them, imoho, of course.

Now, which one would you choose?

Edited by Rick
Posted

And in between there's me, an agnostic who on one hand would like to purge wokeism and on the other would rather have the opportunity to do shopping on sunday (ba dum tss) and doesn't appreciate having the religion forced down his throat.

Posted
2 hours ago, Rick said:

Well, I fined the absolute demands of secular folk of most forms of governmentforcing their social beliefs and value's via monetary penalties and imprisonment on non believers to be fatuous at best.  Why should non beloevers suffer the control of believers?  It rather takes the rights of the individual and trashes them, imoho, of course.

Now, which one would you choose?

Let's see, an elected government over a non elected body of mostly men, who ignore the rights of at least fifty percent of the population and want to force their choices down the throats of people who do not share their belief system.

Laws from that elected government over the beliefs a few wanting to shove nonsense down the throats of the many, WITHOUT their say so.

Tell me, why do you think you should be able to use your beliefs to punish and control the lives on non believers?

I am not a number, I am a FREE man.

I suggest that those who think otherwise should remember you only have the right to believe what YOU want to, because I can believe what I want too.  Democracy over theocracy every day of the week, ta.

Posted
24 minutes ago, Mike1158 said:

Let's see, an elected government over a non elected body of mostly men, who ignore the rights of at least fifty percent of the population and want to force their choices down the throats of people who do not share their belief system.

Laws from that elected government over the beliefs a few wanting to shove nonsense down the throats of the many, WITHOUT their say so.

Tell me, why do you think you should be able to use your beliefs to punish and control the lives on non believers?

I am not a number, I am a FREE man.

I suggest that those who think otherwise should remember you only have the right to believe what YOU want to, because I can believe what I want too.  Democracy over theocracy every day of the week, ta.

It's not the church itself passing any kind of laws, it's the elected politicians who happen to have their worldview shaped by religion (or at least appear to have it for electoral purposes). It's pretty much the same with the other side, but instead of religion there is so-called "progress", functionally no difference to be honest. After all claiming that some weird dude is actually a woman because he says so requires a lot of... faith.

Posted
32 minutes ago, Mike1158 said:

Let's see, an elected government over a non elected body of mostly men, who ignore the rights of at least fifty percent of the population and want to force their choices down the throats of people who do not share their belief system.

Laws from that elected government over the beliefs a few wanting to shove nonsense down the throats of the many, WITHOUT their say so.

Tell me, why do you think you should be able to use your beliefs to punish and control the lives on non believers?

I am not a number, I am a FREE man.

I suggest that those who think otherwise should remember you only have the right to believe what YOU want to, because I can believe what I want too.  Democracy over theocracy every day of the week, ta.

Galatians 5:1

For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

John 8:36

So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

1 Peter 2:16

Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God.

-> True freedom comes from Jesus.

Posted
15 hours ago, rmgill said:

These are going to need some substantiation. 

Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, murder all the firstborn, etc etc. Thus far they are postively biblical, ask the residents of Bucha.

As for me, I believe in God. Probably a detached, mostly disillusioned, throughly disgruntled God. 'I build them a nice garden, they go and eat all the apples. So I give them a nice planet, go and do your own thing I said. Procreate and have fun I said. So they kill all the Dodo's, slaughter the Rhino's for viagra, they screw up the atmosphere, they melt the ice caps, and then go and make wars on each other. Ungratelful bastards!'  Id say he would have more than enough reason to be ticked off at this point.

So yes, im a believer, strangely, curiously, waywardly. And yet, im still in Mikes camp. God would I think want us to be free. I dont think he would, if he is any kind of benign God, enjoy the fruits of some in the evangelical right, who rejoiced at people dying of aids because it was perceived as punishing homosexuality, and would happily punish people for indulging in free love, which is, it has to be said, one hell of lot more profitable for mankind than indulging in aggressive wars.

Sometimes you have to look beyond what was explicitly in the Bible, and reflect that if God existed or still exists, what he would really want for mankind. And im pretty sure its not being put in unrealistic chains, whether its of chastity or rejoicing in the misfortune of others. And sorry to say, i think some of those who claim to be the most religious on this site indulge in it the worst, to my absolute incomprehension. They would happily stand by and witness their fellow man being murdered in an unjust and very bloody war, and suggest its nothing to do with them. Wasnt there something about a good Samaritan? Im pretty sure it wasnt his problem either.

There is also an inherent danger in Christianity or any  other form of Religion, which some indulge in. By claiming they are Christian, or Moslem, or Jewish or advent hopists or whatever, they declaim anyone elses ability to be right, because they personally believe they own the moral high ground. For myself, I found my father, a Socialist, an athiest, for the most part to be a thoroughly modest and moral man. If there is anything that God I hope rewards is morality and goodness, not the particular package it comes in, still less a belief in him personally.Anything less would be pure vanity I would think.

And that is at least in part why you shouldnt mix Religion and politics. Politics is the art of the possible. Religion is the art of the spiritual, and, like Cider and Vodka in my unfortunate experience, its a mistake to mix them.

 

Posted
6 hours ago, Mike1158 said:

Well, I fined the desire of religious folk of all denominations, trying to force their beliefs and value's on non believers to be fatuous at best.  Why should non beloevers suffer the control of believers?  It rather takes the rights of the individual and trashes them, imoho, of course.

Why should believers suffer the control of non believers?

Posted
4 hours ago, urbanoid said:

And in between there's me, an agnostic who on one hand would like to purge wokeism and on the other would rather have the opportunity to do shopping on sunday (ba dum tss) and doesn't appreciate having the religion forced down his throat.

I'm inclined to agree.  The question I have is what counts as "forcing".  Is an office Christmas tree forcing religion on me?  Is Rick linking to Bible quotes in a forum where they can be skipped over?  Is a common day of rest (otherwise quite secular and left leaning unions here were opposed to Sunday shopping)?  Is a Bible quote on a fast food wrapper?

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