Stuart Galbraith Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Was listening to an interesting podcast today featuring Nigel West, discussing a new book he has written on the German Abwehr. The most interesting part was a story that apparently surfaced 2 years ago, but which seems to this point to have gone largely unnoticed. MI5 released some documents describing a defector from the Abwehr called Otto John. John was a Lawyer, and IIRC, had some connection with the German Abwehr. After the July 20th plot failed, he fled abroad, and thence to MI6 and sanctuary in Britain. In 1950, he was appointed President of Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz, Which I suppose was the West German equivalent of MI5. He sensationally 'defected' to the East, before fleeing back in 1955, and spent the rest of his life trying to claim he was setup by the Stasi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_John Where it gets really interesting, the MI5 document that was released appear to indicate that by 1944, he had been an agent for MI6 for two years. Which implies that, when July 20th occurred, MI6 most likely knew it was going to happen, and that John would appear to have been a link between the Abwehr that was instrumental in the plot, and the British Intelligence service. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/16679322/brits-involved-in-hitler-death-plot/# Which if its true, tends to turn the history of July 20th and WW2 on its head. Podcast with Nigel West is here, well worth a listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Well, John is of course known to have been the 20 July conspirator's "liaison" with the Allies, probably because as a Lufthansa company attorney, he could freely travel to neutral countries. He may also have run some errands for the Gestapo, which would have given him additional leeway. In fact after the coup went wrong, he escaped by putting himself on a flight to Madrid as a deadheader, then went on to Lisbon after checking in with the British embassy. His brother OTOH was apprehended and executed. He was arrested by Portuguese authorities himself, but apparently over some sort of sexual escapade; they denied a German extradition request, and the British brought him out as a political refugee. Though he was initially detained in the UK, Sefton Delmer of the "Daily Express" and BBC quickly enlisted him for the German-language Soldatensender Calais propaganda broadcast. The British also pushed for him to become head of West German domestic intelligence in 1950, ostentatively for his anti-Nazi credentials rather than actual experience with intelligence work. OTOH, the Americans and the old Wehrmacht hands running foreign and military intelligence for them seem to have been suspicious of him, mostly due to politics, but possibly over his amorous and other habits, too. Chancellor Konrad Adenauer wasn't impressed with him either, and he found himself frozen out of access both at home and abroad. Which contributed to him taking to the bottle, along with all the re-ascending Nazi officials in West Germany. Whether he went to East Germany willingly, was drugged as he claimed, or blackmailed by former Gestapo officers who had themselves found new employment with the Stasi and knew of his relations with their old club remains a matter of dispute. I guess you could read sense into some of that if he was a British asset even before he fled to the UK; but as the intelligence business works, just his "liaison" activity could give the Gestapo, and certainly the 20 July plotters, the same claim. That allied intelligence was broadly aware of the latter's intent to get rid of Hitler, if not the specifics and persons involved, is I think pretty unambigious anyway; as early as May 1942, Oxford-educated diplomat Adam von Trott zu Solz passed a memo of the resistance to Churchill himself via the Dutch secretary general of the Geneva-based World Council of Churches and his friend Stafford Cripps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssnake Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 3 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said: Which if its true, tends to turn the history of July 20th and WW2 on its head. Don't think so. Were there contacts to the MI6? Yes. Was the plot directed by the MI6? Absolutely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ssnake said: Don't think so. Were there contacts to the MI6? Yes. Was the plot directed by the MI6? Absolutely not. There is no doubt in my mind the plot emerged from Germans, and I didn't mean to imply as otherwise. But if British intelligence subsequently knew ,and one of its agents was involved, it opens up several big questions. 1 Did they just know, or actively support it, perhaps even using ultra intelligence? 2 if we were assisting, then that implies we may have been warm to the idea of a separate peace with Germany, despite agreeing with the Soviets we were not. Unless we were selling them out to cause disruption. 3. If we were doing that, does that possibly put Allen Dulles negotiations in Switzerland, ostensibly to surrender the armies in Italy in 1945, in a potential new light? Did the Americans even know what contacts we had, or how we were using them? All of these are unlikely perhaps, but as the relevant SIS files are still classified, we simply don't know what links or promises may have been made. In fact, until two years ago, we didn't even know for sure there were definite SIS links. If nothing else it turns the whole affair in a new light. 2 hours ago, BansheeOne said: Well, John is of course known to have been the 20 July conspirator's "liaison" with the Allies, probably because as a Lufthansa company attorney, he could freely travel to neutral countries. He may also have run some errands for the Gestapo, which would have given him additional leeway. In fact after the coup went wrong, he escaped by putting himself on a flight to Madrid as a deadheader, then went on to Lisbon after checking in with the British embassy. His brother OTOH was apprehended and executed. He was arrested by Portuguese authorities himself, but apparently over some sort of sexual escapade; they denied a German extradition request, and the British brought him out as a political refugee. Though he was initially detained in the UK, Sefton Delmer of the "Daily Express" and BBC quickly enlisted him for the German-language Soldatensender Calais propaganda broadcast. The British also pushed for him to become head of West German domestic intelligence in 1950, ostentatively for his anti-Nazi credentials rather than actual experience with intelligence work. OTOH, the Americans and the old Wehrmacht hands running foreign and military intelligence for them seem to have been suspicious of him, mostly due to politics, but possibly over his amorous and other habits, too. Chancellor Konrad Adenauer wasn't impressed with him either, and he found himself frozen out of access both at home and abroad. Which contributed to him taking to the bottle, along with all the re-ascending Nazi officials in West Germany. Whether he went to East Germany willingly, was drugged as he claimed, or blackmailed by former Gestapo officers who had themselves found new employment with the Stasi and knew of his relations with their old club remains a matter of dispute. I guess you could read sense into some of that if he was a British asset even before he fled to the UK; but as the intelligence business works, just his "liaison" activity could give the Gestapo, and certainly the 20 July plotters, the same claim. That allied intelligence was broadly aware of the latter's intent to get rid of Hitler, if not the specifics and persons involved, is I think pretty unambigious anyway; as early as May 1942, Oxford-educated diplomat Adam von Trott zu Solz passed a memo of the resistance to Churchill himself via the Dutch secretary general of the Geneva-based World Council of Churches and his friend Stafford Cripps. Yes, you point towards the other implication. That when we recommended him to head the west German intelligence service, we may have tried to run him as an agent. Which would put his apparent breakdown in a new light. Re the podcast, is it widely known that Admiral Canaris passed details of Barbarossa via his mistress to the Allies? That was a new one on me. Edited March 14, 2023 by Stuart Galbraith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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