U.S. Presidential Primaries 2024!

[Murph]

FARK!  At least we will get rid of one Romney sooner than later, but this B**ch needed to go years ago.  She and her RINO wing have done untold damage to the party, and kneecapped efforts to have real conservatives win things.

 

 

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/02/breaking-rnc-chairwoman-ronna-mcdaniel-announces-her-resignation/

[Skywalkre]

On 2/21/2024 at 5:05 PM, rmgill said:

Bull crap. Biden could execute the same policies that Trump did. He's not. He's doing the opposite. He's turned the supply of illegals up to 11. 

He executed some.  The COVID related one was in effect til less than a year ago.  Some of the other changes he made have reasons, whether or not you agree with them.

The first is getting rid of the stay in Mexico rule.  The argument for lifting this is partly a humanitarian one - we all know parts of Mexico are effectively a failed state with cartels running rampant.  Leaving illegals at the border for months on end opened them up to exploitation or worse.

The other change was shifting assets from raiding businesses to help at the border.  Given the sheer number of illegals showing up at the border this makes sense... but this, coupled to the abuses of the asylum system, meant most illegals understood that if they could get into the country they were likely fine. 

Now, if you really want to see how messed up this whole illegal immigrant issue is go find some of the articles from when Biden shifted these personnel to the border.  You'll see some blatant statements from business leaders commending the move.  Why?  This happened a little over a year after Biden took office and COVID was slowing down, businesses were trying to get back up and running, but workers were hard to find.  Businesses were saying the part out lout they weren't supposed to - that they wanted these illegals.  I've said this for years, you can go back and find me saying this multiple times, but if we want to really address the problem at the border we don't need to build a wall... we need to go after businesses that hire these illegals.  Good luck getting that to happen...

On 2/21/2024 at 5:05 PM, rmgill said:

Oh. Not the Democrats. They cna't pass ANY legislation. 

The democrats want more open borders. They're getting it. Remember all the sanctuary city crap during Trump's presidency. 

...

And it set the tap to ALWAYS be opena nd never close. Sorry. You don't get to gaslight like this here. 

STOP IT.

You're struggling with having your replies make sense with what you're quoting.  More deep breaths, less frothing, try again...

On 2/21/2024 at 5:05 PM, rmgill said:

How many immigrants have you conceded to hosting in your home? Are you picking any up at the airport today?

Again, you're not making a whole lot of sense here.  As for those D compromises I mentioned they were in that bill.  If that bill was passed it would have given lots of power to DHS (not BP, I got that wrong from memory when I first wrote my reply) to effectively turn away all asylum seekers which would do a lot to stem the tide.

As far as illegals go if folks haven't noticed that info the left of my posts I live in this little place called AZ.  It's a border state and I've lived here for most of my life minus my stint in the Army.  Illegals are everywhere.  You can't throw a rock without hitting them.  They're the ones building new homes and apartments, they're the ones renovating old homes and apartments, they're working at every restaurant (go to any fast food joint in the Valley and try to tell me half the folks there aren't illegals), and they're the ones who show up when the stores at my local strip mall close to clean them out at night.  I'm fully aware of the problem.

But, again, TN struggles with being honest about this situation.  What is it the overwhelming majority of them are guilty of besides crossing illegally?  It's coming to this country to either a) work jobs American's won't or b) work at jobs for pay that's illegal for businesses to pay Americans.  The underlying issue here, as it's always been, as I've been preaching for years (because I fucking live in a border state and have been seeing this for decades now) isn't one of our  border not having a giant wall across it... the issue is there's work here for them to have and businesses that have no hesitation hiring them.

I'd actually love it if someone could magically snap their fingers and have all illegals disappear.  I saw a report a few weeks ago that stated if you could suddenly make all illegals disappear and if you could get all Americans who aren't working to replace them... you'd still be short 2 million jobs that would now be vacant.  I would pay good money to see the faces of folks when prices across the board shoot up due to the lack of labor (our housing market is already stupid so I hate to think what would happen to housing prices if all illegals disappeared).

We need a system in place for some of these illegals to come over legally and do the jobs Americans won't take.  We need to prosecute the companies hiring these illegals to do work Americans can't do because the businesses don't want to pay what they have to.  We need a system where asylum isn't some get-into-the-US-free card which actually hurts the cases of legit asylum seekers.  That compromise bill wasn't perfect but it addressed some of these issues.  If Rs were serious about caring about the border they would have taken it.  They didn't.  'Nuff said.

[Skywalkre]

On 2/25/2024 at 3:10 AM, BansheeOne said:

As expected of course, but still a low blow for Nikki:

https://www.dw.com/en/donald-trump-wins-south-carolina-republican-primary-defeating-nikki-haley-in-her-home-state/a-68363766

South Carolina was... interesting...

We all knew Haley was going to lose.  Her own team was apparently aiming for 42% as a 'win' in their book and they fell short of even that goal.  Recent word that the Kock brothers are pulling their funding for her could mean the end of her campaign.  But the real story here is probably what these results continue to show about Trump.

Trump is basically running as the incumbent and has only managed 55-60% of the votes in these early contests.  While the R party is clearly under his control the reality is you have a significant chunk of said party that are vehemently anti-Trump or just really want someone besides him.

Saw a bunch of interesting polls last Fri.  One showed that upwards of 20% of Rs are actively planning on voting for Biden.  We're not talking about staying home... but voting for the other candidate.  Another pundit was highlighting a poll showing that if Trump is convicted 10% of the party would simply not vote for anyone (this one was less clear if these 10% were in the camp actively showing up and voting for him already).  Still, you have upwards of 1/3 of the Rs who have said if Trump is the nominee they will vote for Biden or sit home this Nov depending on what happens with his cases.

Turnout in SC once again highlighted the issues Trump will run into.  In urban areas the R voters unanimously went for Haley.  SC exit polling also showed a turnout that was more conservative than Iowa yet he again only managed 60% of the vote.  These same exit polls also paint an alarming picture of what these Trump voters believe.  Upwards of 90% of those who voted for Trump think Biden didn't win in '20.  Yet again, a conspiracy theory with zero fucking evidence and most of the party believes it.  Troubling is an understatement to describe that reality.

The media I watch the most is full of stories of how disgruntled and disinterested D voters are with Biden... yet the reality is Trump seems to have the same problem.  Some pundits point out that this disinterest may be overblown because Biden is doing wonders with his fundraising so far (and hasn't had to use any of it unlike Trump).

Then you had the IVF fiasco this last week with Rs running to distance themselves from that decision.  There were always questions about how much the Dobbs decision would play this Nov but if Rs continue to make moves like they do they're going to do a better job bringing out the D vote than actual D staffers.

[Josh]

Dobbs related dumb fuckery and Trump himself are likely the only reason most democrats would vote at all.

Haley looks like she’s going to get about a third of Michigan. What I cannot reconcile is the national and swing state polling vs the rather Luke warm reception Trump is receiving as an incumbent in the first primary states.

Edited February 28, 2024 by Josh

[Josh]

On 1/28/2024 at 11:25 AM, glenn239 said:

In the 2020 Democratic race, I recall that all the candidates except Biden and Sanders all dropped out en mass in a stunning move that has never been adequately explained.  The appearance was that the fix was in.

Was the fix in this year when the GOP candidates all left outside Niki and Don in the space of several weeks?

[Josh]

Not really election news, but tangential and not worth its own thread: McConnel will step down as minority leader effective November.

ETA: Correction, end of the year/term.

Edited February 29, 2024 by Josh

[rmgill]

 

[rmgill]

On 2/26/2024 at 6:42 PM, Skywalkre said:

He executed some.  The COVID related one was in effect til less than a year ago.  Some of the other changes he made have reasons, whether or not you agree with them.

And he modified others. But the goal has been to smooth the passage of the ilelgals into the US. You could quibble that that has not been the goal but you CANNOT argue that the effect has been to do the exact same thing. 

It's so bad that New York is starting to make noises and complain about it. 

And Skywalkre, people from other continents are flying to panama or other points nearby and are hiking and taking buses to the US border. With NGOs providing some of the transport AND assistance across the border. 

 

On 2/26/2024 at 6:42 PM, Skywalkre said:

You're struggling with having your replies make sense with what you're quoting.  More deep breaths, less frothing, try again...

Stop the gaslighting. 

On 2/26/2024 at 6:42 PM, Skywalkre said:

Again, you're not making a whole lot of sense here.  As for those D compromises I mentioned they were in that bill.  If that bill was passed it would have given lots of power to DHS (not BP, I got that wrong from memory when I first wrote my reply) to effectively turn away all asylum seekers which would do a lot to stem the tide.

Everyone just claims asylum and is given a court date at an undetermined time in the future. How is that a workable system? It's taken 4 years of Biden to figure that out? 

 

On 2/26/2024 at 6:42 PM, Skywalkre said:

As far as illegals go if folks haven't noticed that info the left of my posts I live in this little place called AZ.  It's a border state and I've lived here for most of my life minus my stint in the Army.  Illegals are everywhere.  You can't throw a rock without hitting them.  They're the ones building new homes and apartments, they're the ones renovating old homes and apartments, they're working at every restaurant (go to any fast food joint in the Valley and try to tell me half the folks there aren't illegals), and they're the ones who show up when the stores at my local strip mall close to clean them out at night.  I'm fully aware of the problem.

How many Millions are needed? We pay Americans not to work. We pay illegals to come here and pay them to sorta work. And if they commit violent crimes, rapes, homicides, etc, we hold them for a while and then let them go. So that's all fine? 

 

On 2/26/2024 at 6:42 PM, Skywalkre said:

But, again, TN struggles with being honest about this situation.  What is it the overwhelming majority of them are guilty of besides crossing illegally? 

Identity theft? If any proper business is paying them to work then they're verifying the SSID somehow right? OR are they just not paying their standard with holding and taxes? 

 

On 2/26/2024 at 6:42 PM, Skywalkre said:

It's coming to this country to either a) work jobs American's won't or b) work at jobs for pay that's illegal for businesses to pay Americans.  The underlying issue here, as it's always been, as I've been preaching for years (because I fucking live in a border state and have been seeing this for decades now) isn't one of our  border not having a giant wall across it... the issue is there's work here for them to have and businesses that have no hesitation hiring them.

Every state is a border state because the Biden admin moves them across country. 

On 2/26/2024 at 6:42 PM, Skywalkre said:

I'd actually love it if someone could magically snap their fingers and have all illegals disappear. 

Why the dramatic difference in the illegal entries during the Trump Administration? Why did it surge upwards when Biden came into office? 

Biden's policies encourage it and supplement it. 

Again stop the gaslighting. 
 

On 2/26/2024 at 6:42 PM, Skywalkre said:

I saw a report a few weeks ago that stated if you could suddenly make all illegals disappear and if you could get all Americans who aren't working to replace them... you'd still be short 2 million jobs that would now be vacant. 

So the Biden economy has gotten stronger (his claim) by importing illegal immigrants who don't pay taxes, don't get paid the standard min wage, or if they do, are paid using someone else's SSID and are thus victims of identity theft with all of the issues that go along with said problems like IRS audits for unpaid taxes of errors on their income/taxes paid? 

How is that a tenable situation that you can just say is OK?
 

On 2/26/2024 at 6:42 PM, Skywalkre said:

I would pay good money to see the faces of folks when prices across the board shoot up due to the lack of labor (our housing market is already stupid so I hate to think what would happen to housing prices if all illegals disappeared).

IF we stopped importing labor, our pay would go up because folks have been diluting the wage market for decades. From H1B Visa holders in private and university sector to the other markets. 

 

On 2/26/2024 at 6:42 PM, Skywalkre said:

We need a system in place for some of these illegals to come over legally and do the jobs Americans won't take. 

Then do that and do it under the auspices of a finite number based on a measured demand. Don't just accept the doors being thrown open. 
 

[Josh]

Tangential election news, the House passed a CR to keep the government open. Johnson got a 2/3s vote with democrats support. It just kicks a 20% shutdown to next week and an 80% one to March 22, so I think we’ll see more CRs soon.

An interesting thing I read says that Johnson has been offered political cover from removal by democrats if he brings the Senate aid deal to a vote. I’ll doubt he takes that out yet, but if his right wing tries to force the issue he may have to.

[Strannik]

Real funny watching supposedly "left"/liberal folks defending the right of capitalists, err... excuse me, job makers to import cheap labor and folks who otherwise pray to laissez faire capitalism to claim "protecting" working class from higher prices that rising wages that lack of cheap import labor would cause 🤣

Of course the fact that both parties never seriously bothered to fix immigration speaks volumes to how well representative "democracy" works in this country...

Edited March 1, 2024 by Strannik

[seahawk]

2 hours ago, Strannik said:

Real funny watching supposedly "left"/liberal folks defending the right of capitalists, err... excuse me, job makers to import cheap labor and folks who otherwise pray to laissez faire capitalism to claim "protecting" working class from higher prices that rising wages that lack of cheap import labor would cause 🤣

Of course the fact that both parties never seriously bothered to fix immigration speaks volumes to how well representative "democracy" works in this country...

I think the billionaires running the country feel perfectly represented.

[urbanoid]

7 hours ago, Strannik said:

Real funny watching supposedly "left"/liberal folks defending the right of capitalists, err... excuse me, job makers to import cheap labor and folks who otherwise pray to laissez faire capitalism to claim "protecting" working class from higher prices that rising wages that lack of cheap import labor would cause 🤣

Of course the fact that both parties never seriously bothered to fix immigration speaks volumes to how well representative "democracy" works in this country...

This.

[Josh]

The fact is that the U.S. economy is expanding while many are in recession is almost totally due to immigration, much of it illegal. This circles back to Skywalkre’s point: the best way to crack down on immigration is to crackdown on the people hiring illegals. But of course neither party wants to do that because of the obvious benefits of cheap labor (often illegally cheap on top of hiring illegal residents).

Legally, the biggest problem seems to be the Asylum loop hole. That needs to be closed by Congress. After that, the U.S. needs a consistent policy with regards to migrant labor. There would be extreme economic consequences to simply ejecting all illegal workers, including just the costs of enforcement and transportation on top of heavy damage to the agricultural, housing, and service industries. It seems like some kind of documentation and regulation of migrant labor would be more beneficial than outright enforcement, and also that streamlining the legal immigration process is badly needed. 

[Strannik]

US economy is expanding because of several factors, but mainly eating EU lunch.

No reasonable person would advocate full immigration ban, but the poilicy should serve the country and it's populace, not the selected few who makes all the money.

Edited March 1, 2024 by Strannik

[rmgill]

11 hours ago, Strannik said:

Real funny watching supposedly "left"/liberal folks defending the right of capitalists, err... excuse me, job makers to import cheap labor and folks who otherwise pray to laissez faire capitalism to claim "protecting" working class from higher prices that rising wages that lack of cheap import labor would cause 🤣

If things were fully laissez faire then that might be workable. We're not. We're a bloody sight far from it.

There are a lot of social programs going on. Plus the legal system has a hard time dealing with some fellow who's come here, used multiple names and then is released because of the Sanctuary city movement and then he rapes and murders a 14 year old girl.

We don't need to import more criminals and then go soft on them.   

More so, it's irksome to beyond belief that there's a multimillion population that's been imported by the Biden admin who 
Don't pay taxes. 
Travel without IDs on airlines
Get local and state benefits
Broke the law to come here. 

And they sidestep any number of other laws with a fast track to release from jail because of the sanctuary laws. 
 

11 hours ago, Strannik said:

Of course the fact that both parties never seriously bothered to fix immigration speaks volumes to how well representative "democracy" works in this country...

The fix here has been to just allow it full scale. There's talk of path to citizenship for them by way of the military. There's movements to allow them to vote locally. 

It's jus a great replacement move on the part of the left. Import a bunch of new working class because they've alienated the old working class. 

Edited March 1, 2024 by rmgill

[urbanoid]

33 minutes ago, rmgill said:

If things were fully laissez faire then that might be workable.

No, it wouldn't be, there's always someone cheaper somewhere in the world who will come to actually work and replace you anyway. The economy isn't a value by itself.

Edited March 1, 2024 by urbanoid

[rmgill]

There's only so much cost they can subsume before they'll also argue for better wages. IT makes for a metric of market forces. 

BUT with Minuimum wage AND the taxes AND the social programs, for illegal immigrants to get the legal jobs because the government just allows it AND for them to side step the tax system makes it by default unfair to the citizens. 

That is categorically the opposite of laissez faire because the government is interfering in every step of MY employment and pay. 

 

[rmgill]

 

[Josh]

Haley wins DC, probably the only thing she will win this season.

[17thfabn]

I heard on some report that the Republican Presidential primary was all but over.

Trump has 244 out of 1,215 delegates needed to win.  So I would say technically far from over. 

I have little doubt Trump will win the Republican nomination short of some catastrophic event. 

[Skywalkre]

On 2/29/2024 at 8:50 AM, rmgill said:

Stop the gaslighting.

Yeah... I don't think you know what that word means.

On 2/29/2024 at 8:50 AM, rmgill said:

Everyone just claims asylum and is given a court date at an undetermined time in the future. How is that a workable system? It's taken 4 years of Biden to figure that out?

It's not.  That system has been left understaffed and underfunded for decades at this point.  Biden has little he can do about it.  The reason we haven't seen an EO on closing the border is because that likely wouldn't stop asylum seekers from still getting in because... that's how current law works.  Rewriting the law is Congress' responsibility and we actually got a bill that would have addressed some of these issues... but Rs let it flounder for political reasons (once again, that's some serious invasion going on that a partial solution can be ignored for political gain).

On 2/29/2024 at 8:50 AM, rmgill said:

Why the dramatic difference in the illegal entries during the Trump Administration? Why did it surge upwards when Biden came into office? 

Biden's policies encourage it and supplement it.

Eh... partially. 

Biden came into power when COVID was still reeking havoc on economies and Central and South America weren't spared from economic downturns (I've seen arguments, too, that increased sanctions under Trump drove immigrants out of some of those countries).  There were also stories from the border when Biden took office asking why illegals were coming when they did.  Many answered that they simply perceived a D POTUS being more sympathetic without pointing to anything specific.

As mentioned before Title 42 didn't end til '23 and the shift of resources to the border from internal efforts was in '22 (again, businesses were celebrating this).  Dropping Stay in Mexico was shortly after he took office but there are humanitarian arguments for that.  As I've mentioned before word spread that the asylum system was an easy in into the country and given the focus completely on the border word spread that if you got into the country you were golden... and all of that hinges on Biden.  He wasn't blatantly opening the gates at the border, though.  A massive influx to a system that has been in desperate need of reform and proper funding for years (that's Congress' responsibility) was always going to result in this. 

On 2/29/2024 at 8:50 AM, rmgill said:

So the Biden economy has gotten stronger (his claim) by importing illegal immigrants who don't pay taxes, don't get paid the standard min wage, or if they do, are paid using someone else's SSID and are thus victims of identity theft with all of the issues that go along with said problems like IRS audits for unpaid taxes of errors on their income/taxes paid? 

How is that a tenable situation that you can just say is OK?

Nice strawman there... I never said it was.

The reality is there are some jobs that we need cheap, immigrant labor for (like basically all farm work).  That requires a functioning system in place to handle it.  It sounds like that compromise bill out of the Senate addressed some of this (but not all... it wasn't a perfect bill).

As you mention a problem with our current setup is that a lot of taxes are being avoided, some Americans are having their identities stolen, and a lot of money leaves the country.  None of that is good nor should it be acceptable.  None of that is solved by building a wall or doing a massive sweep to deport a bunch of illegals once and leaving it at that.  As I mentioned in a reply to 17thfabn in a different thread the reality is we need to expand and properly fund several Fed agencies so these things can be handled.  We need to overhaul the asylum system so it's not a 'get-into-the-US-free' card like it is now.  Some of that was in that compromise bill... and yet Rs wouldn't even give it a chance.  Hmm... guess it's not a serious issue to them, then.

Edited March 5, 2024 by Skywalkre

[Skywalkre]

7 hours ago, 17thfabn said:

I heard on some report that the Republican Presidential primary was all but over.

Trump has 244 out of 1,215 delegates needed to win.  So I would say technically far from over. 

I have little doubt Trump will win the Republican nomination short of some catastrophic event. 

I'm curious how tomorrow's results will go for the Rs.  Michigan was a big win for Trump in that it was the first state where he didn't underperform his polls.  Some pundits argued, though, that MI was also the first state where no one did any serious campaigning.  Some are arguing that if you give someone a chance to properly campaign against Trump it deflates his numbers.  That didn't happen in MI and from what I'm seeing there's very little campaigning going on in any of these Super Tuesday states.  So... will Trump match the poll numbers or will we see some deflated results again?

[rmgill]

4 hours ago, Skywalkre said:

Yeah... I don't think you know what that word means.
 

No, the light aren't getting dimmer! No!

4 hours ago, Skywalkre said:

It's not.  That system has been left understaffed and underfunded for decades at this point.

Izzat why the appropriations for the border wall were unused?
 

 

4 hours ago, Skywalkre said:

  Biden has little he can do about it. 

Bullcrap.


Biden wrote 14 EOs on the border. 

 

• Proclamation on Ending Discriminatory Bans on Entry to The United States – January 20, 2021

• Executive Order on the Revision of Civil Immigration Enforcement Policies and Priorities – January 20, 2021

• Preserving and Fortifying Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) – January 20, 2021

• Proclamation on the Termination Of Emergency With Respect To The Southern Border Of The United States And Redirection Of Funds Diverted To Border Wall Construction – January 20, 2021

• Executive Order on Ensuring a Lawful and Accurate Enumeration and Apportionment Pursuant to the Decennial Census – January 20, 2021

• Memorandum Reinstating Deferred Enforced Departure for Liberians – January 20, 2021

• US Citizenship Act of 2021

• DHS Statement on the Suspension of New Enrollments in the Migrant Protection Protocols Program – January 20, 2021

• Proclamation on the Suspension of Entry as Immigrants and Non-Immigrants of Certain Additional Persons Who Pose a Risk of Transmitting Coronavirus Disease – January 25, 2021

• Executive Order on Creating a Comprehensive Regional Framework to Address the Causes of Migration, to Manage Migration Throughout North and Central America, and to Provide Safe and Orderly Processing of Asylum Seekers at the United States Border – February 2, 2021

• Executive Order on Restoring Faith in Our Legal Immigration Systems and Strengthening Integration and Inclusion Efforts for New American – February 2, 2021

• Executive Order on the Establishment of Interagency Task Force on the Reunification of Families – February 2, 2021

• Executive Order on Rebuilding and Enhancing Programs to Resettle Refugees and Planning for the Impact of Climate Change on Migration – February 4, 2021

• Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021 – April 16, 2021

• A Proclamation on the Suspension of Entry as Nonimmigrants of Certain Additional Persons Who Pose a Risk of Transmitting Coronavirus Disease 2019 – April 30, 2021

• Memorandum for the Secretary of State on the Emergency Presidential Determination on Refugee Admissions for Fiscal Year 2021 – May 3, 2021
  
  Nothing he can do. More gas lighting.

4 hours ago, Skywalkre said:

The reason we haven't seen an EO on closing the border is because that likely wouldn't stop asylum seekers from still getting in because... that's how current law works. 

4 hours ago, Skywalkre said:

Rewriting the law is Congress' responsibility and we actually got a bill that would have addressed some of these issues... but Rs let it flounder for political reasons (once again, that's some serious invasion going on that a partial solution can be ignored for political gain).

Wait, you mean like the DACA law, which side stepped congress and allowed immigration in violation of code? The one Trump started to reverse and Biden re-enabled?

Snort.

So you're an open borders advocate?
 

4 hours ago, Skywalkre said:

Biden came into power when COVID was still reeking havoc on economies and Central and South America weren't spared from economic downturns (I've seen arguments, too, that increased sanctions under Trump drove immigrants out of some of those countries).

And now, post covid? Why the continuing upsurge?

8 million in less than 4 years Sky.

 

[EchoFiveMike]

19 hours ago, Josh said:

Haley wins DC, probably the only thing she will win this season.

Well, it tells us what the GOP labelled element of the Deep State wants, at least.  S/F....Ken M

[rmgill]

Is this another thing that Biden was 'POWERLESS to STOP?'