T-14 Armata VS M1 Abrams - Deadliest Tank Battles, Who Is Better?

[Stuart Galbraith]

Only Armata thread I could find, hope it's of interest.

 

[Stefan Kotsch]

1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Only Armata thread I could find, hope it's of interest.

->History of Soviet tanks 🤗

[Stuart Galbraith]

Dammit, I thought I had a scoop.

 

[Harkonnen]

Armata coax MG

 

https://x.com/AndreiBtvt/status/1852746659798679940  

Edited November 4, 2024 by Harkonnen

[Stefan Kotsch]

Looks like an endless belt with 4 x 500 rounds?

[Harkonnen]

it is said not endless belt and existing mashine gun can not fire more than 500 rounds in one battle cause it jams

[bojan]

Yeah, somehow PKT suddenly became worse and can not fulfil old technical standards... I would like to see some real source on that.

[Harkonnen]

How was it possible to enhance the armor of Abrams and what opinion AFU tank crews who work with them on a daily basis give it? Find the answers in our video.

- about additional armor protection “Kontact 1”

- about Abrams weight and cross-country mobility. Claims about weight and poor mobility turned out to be groundless.

- at 4:32 ARAT repair.

- from the words of the tankers at 40:10 - the problem was ATGMs - the turret without “Kontact” can be penetrated by the ATGMs used by the RF Armed Forces.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjBq9CE2ILc

[alejandro_]

12 hours ago, Harkonnen said:

How was it possible to enhance the armor of Abrams and what opinion AFU tank crews who work with them on a daily basis give it? Find the answers in our video.

- about additional armor protection “Kontact 1”

- about Abrams weight and cross-country mobility. Claims about weight and poor mobility turned out to be groundless.

- at 4:32 ARAT repair.

- from the words of the tankers at 40:10 - the problem was ATGMs - the turret without “Kontact” can be penetrated by the ATGMs used by the RF Armed Forces.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjBq9CE2ILc

Couple of extra points:
- Thermal sight can identify a tank or BMP at 7km distance
- No comment is made on the filters, which was an issue according to some news.

 

[Harkonnen]

 

[alanch90]

15 hours ago, Harkonnen said:

 

His pro KMDB bias s so funny. Somehow 6TD would be less "archaich" than 2V-12 when the opposite is true. That without mentioning that 6TD is a much less powerful engine with less torque. In other words, not ideal for a brand new platform that needs to have a lot of capability (and weight) growth potential.

[old_goat]

1 hour ago, alanch90 said:

His pro KMDB bias s so funny. Somehow 6TD would be less "archaich" than 2V-12 when the opposite is true. That without mentioning that 6TD is a much less powerful engine with less torque. In other words, not ideal for a brand new platform that needs to have a lot of capability (and weight) growth potential.

Pro KMDB bias or not, he is right. 2V12 is a sick engine, a technological dead end. It was very problematic right from the start, and still not mature yet. 6TD on the other hand, worked reliably from the very beginning, and it still had potential to upgrade, even up to 1500hp.

Soviet tank development always struggled with the engines. V2 and derivatives were generally reliable, but had low power output, and were obsolete already even in the 50s. It was actually possible to increase their performance, but at the cost of significant reduction in reliability and service life. 5TDF still had low power, but was more modern, and was the base of the 6TD, which was the only mature engine suitable for larger, heavier future tank designs, other than the gas turbine. 

Edited December 12, 2024 by old_goat

[bojan]

It was possible to increase power of V2 series, while keeping reliability, like Yugoslavia did. But there was a price to pay for that - literary price, since 1000hp engine cost ~2.5 x more than 780hp version. 1200hp version, if keeping same operational life and reliability requirement was estimated to cost more than 4 times more than 780hp version.

So it is no wonder why Soviets decided not to bother with such upgrades, for secondary tank 780/840hp was good  enough and for premium tanks they had turbines.

[alejandro_]

Some M-84 figures from a book. Engine was third most expensive component:

The export price of the T-72M tank was then about $1.3 million, and the M-84A $1.584 million (production price about $700,000). Of this, the cost of labor was 74%, materials 18%, and imported components about 8.5%. The costs of acquisition, production and investment in industrial capacities (machinery, tools, laboratories, personnel training) reached a huge figure of $3,805 million, of which $29 million for the license, $7 million for processing license documentation, $121 million for the production of special tools, $13 million for the production of a trial batch (5 tanks), and most of all for investments in factories – $2,905 million. The republics of the SFRY contributed to the price of the tank: Bosnia and Herzegovina with 33.25%, Montenegro with 1.68%, Macedonia with 3.39%, Slovenia with 18.93%, Serbia with 22.01% and Croatia with 20.73%. The most expensive parts of the tank were: the turret $210,000, the armored body $90,000 and the engine $88,000.

[Harkonnen]

On 12/13/2024 at 10:59 AM, alejandro_ said:

Some M-84 figures from a book. Engine was third most expensive component:

The export price of the T-72M tank was then about $1.3 million, and the M-84A $1.584 million (production price about $700,000). Of this, the cost of labor was 74%, materials 18%, and imported components about 8.5%. The costs of acquisition, production and investment in industrial capacities (machinery, tools, laboratories, personnel training) reached a huge figure of $3,805 million, of which $29 million for the license, $7 million for processing license documentation, $121 million for the production of special tools, $13 million for the production of a trial batch (5 tanks), and most of all for investments in factories – $2,905 million. The republics of the SFRY contributed to the price of the tank: Bosnia and Herzegovina with 33.25%, Montenegro with 1.68%, Macedonia with 3.39%, Slovenia with 18.93%, Serbia with 22.01% and Croatia with 20.73%. The most expensive parts of the tank were: the turret $210,000, the armored body $90,000 and the engine $88,000.

Thanks - what is the book title?

[alejandro_]

Odbrana 232 - Specijalni prilog 119 - Tenk M-84. You should be able to find it online.

[Harkonnen]

https://i.ibb.co/4sD68bB/00000005.jpg

 

Armata is dead long live the Shturm

 

https://x.com/AndreiBtvt/status/1869822861030064259 

Edited December 19, 2024 by Harkonnen

[old_goat]

15 hours ago, Harkonnen said:

 

 

https://i.ibb.co/4sD68bB/00000005.jpg

 

Armata is dead long live the Shturm

 

https://x.com/AndreiBtvt/status/1869822861030064259 

 

What is the point of this thing? It doesnt make any sense in my opinion. For an "assault tank" the object 781 prototypes would be more useful, or maybe a real assult gun, with a short 152 in a casemate... This "T-72" with small turret and sawed off 125 is total nonsense I think. 

[Stuart Galbraith]

Russia reinvents the AVRE?

[Mighty_Zuk]

We've seen this one before. I thought it was a good idea at the time, but it's too late for Russia now. 

[Harkonnen]

3 hours ago, old_goat said:

What is the point of this thing? It doesnt make any sense in my opinion. For an "assault tank" the object 781 prototypes would be more useful, or maybe a real assult gun, with a short 152 in a casemate... This "T-72" with small turret and sawed off 125 is total nonsense I think. 

The point is to sell old T-72A again as an unmanned tank.

[Mike1158]

Do they have any left in running order?

[Mighty_Zuk]

1 hour ago, Mike1158 said:

Do they have any left in running order?

According to covert_cabal, nope. But the plans were much older than the war. Back when it made sense.

[Harkonnen]

2 hours ago, Mike1158 said:

Do they have any left in running order?

Not less than 1500 + T-72A and T-72B for such upgrade availible.

[Mighty_Zuk]

33 minutes ago, Harkonnen said:

Not less than 1500 + T-72A and T-72B for such upgrade availible.

Surely you don't think they're truly available, do you?