Holland l&I 2023(ex Militracks)

[Harold Jones]

 

As I always say, if you can attend an I&I you should attend one, even if it is only for a day or part of a day.  Putting faces and voices to Tanknet handles is just one benefit.  I had fun, although I have come to realize just how jaded I have become to military museums and vehicles.  I have to paraphrase Douglas Adams taken all the pictures of armored vehicles I can useably take, certainly more than I will ever view, edit or post. That means that it's the ancillary equipment that I actually enjoy seeing, especially in context.  I easily spent twice the time looking at the contents of the shop and support vehicle displays at Overloon as I did the Panther or the Cromwell.  So for me the fun of an I&I is found amongst the participants and not so much the activities.  That said I will summarize what I believe to be the best practices for planning an I&I.

1. Everything takes twice as long as you expect.  Getting Tanknetters to move in the same direction at the same time is like herding cats.  There will be impromptu seminars on things like the use of the small tracked digger that is being used to dig up a sidewalk for repair, different methods of pre-paying parking lots and the relative merits of store window maniquins.  Tanknetters cannot walk and talk at the same time so instructional circles will form while anything is discussed.  Someone will always dart off to buy smokes, water or fridge magnets minutes before your expected departure time.

2. Related to 1, don't get too ambitious one minor museum or activity per half day is as much as you can do with any group over 4.  Major museums will consume the best part of day.  With this in mind, lunch is all about fuel, be ready to grab something at the museum cafe, or a snack stand.  That said if you have the time then lunch at a pleasant cafe or pub is perfectly fine, expect to spend no less than 2.5 hours getting it though.  Googling restaurants near me is a godsend, places with over 4.4 stars and more than 100 reviews are generally bullet proof.

3. Plan your dinners in advance, especially if you are not eating at the hotel.  It is difficult to find places that will take a large group with 0 notice.  Eat dinner later than normal, this gives you time to complete the day's activities and not have to rush to dinner. However, be aware of restaurant closing times.

4. Tanknetters skew older, walking is fine but expect to need to stop and admire the scenery fairly often to allow people to catch up, rest backs or just breathe.  The gasping and wheezing from a column of tanknetters is alarming but silence (possibly followed by a thud) is worse.

5. If you intend to pay for the group (meals, museum tickets, train tickets, etc.) announce it in advance.  Since tanknetters move in a blob and are very online people you will inevitably end up buying a ticket or something for someone who has bought theirs in advance.  

6. The schdule is a guide, it should be flexible to account for unexpected crowds, closing/opening changes or stumbling upon something else on the way.  

7. Communication is key, send links to destinations and online ticket purchase pages on the group chat.  Make sure everyone is aware of start times and departure times. Don't expect anyone to scroll back to a message you sent 2 months prior to the event.  Update the initial post on the forum with the final schedule and the list of attendees as you have the info.  Google maps may or may not suck and be a huge privacy problem, but it's damn near ubiquitous so use it for the I&I it means everyone will be finding the routes more or less the same way.

Finally make sure you read the signs before you buy a cruise ticket. 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/sGU38FgG6zy8dKag6

Edited May 25, 2023 by Harold Jones

[urbanoid]

Ah, yes, the forbidden cruises on the other side of Reichsmuseum.

A dialogue a few hours earlier:

- Maybe we can just get in without the queue? (for some reason I don't remember)
- Nah, it's not 1940 anymore.

[Lesley]

22 hours ago, Harold Jones said:

Tanknetters skew older, walking is fine but expect to need to stop and admire the scenery fairly often to allow people to catch up, rest backs or just breathe.  The gasping and wheezing from a column of tanknetters is alarming but silence (possibly followed by a thud) is worse.

🤣I know..... unfortunately, I'am getting old..

[Harold Jones]

Shared photo album.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/aVtJAw6rNRDhtmSf9  If you attended and haven't had a chance to share photos, pm me and I'll add you as a contributor.  

[BansheeOne]

I think we can also infer from the pictures that as time progresses, TankNetters start to look more and more the same - squat, bespectacled and greying.

 

[Harold Jones]

Harsh but fair.  We are basically becoming dwarves.

 

[sunday]

It takes a really superior intellect to recognize the symptoms.

[BansheeOne]

I certainly fit that description myself ...

[sunday]

I think this is the canal we followed in route to Overloon by -courtesy of environmentally friendly route mapping by google maps- secondary roads. Has two bridges near Veghel that were objectives of the 101st during Market

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuid-Willemsvaart

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-ii/hells-highway-101-airborne-part-1.html?chrome=1

[Markus Becker]

On 5/25/2023 at 2:43 PM, Harold Jones said:

 

As I always say, if you can attend an I&I you should attend one, even if it is only for a day or part of a day.  Putting faces and voices to Tanknet handles is just one benefit.  I had fun, although I have come to realize just how jaded I have become to military museums and vehicles.  I have to paraphrase Douglas Adams taken all the pictures of armored vehicles I can useably take, certainly more than I will ever view, edit or post. That means that it's the ancillary equipment that I actually enjoy seeing, especially in context.  I easily spent twice the time looking at the contents of the shop and support vehicle displays at Overloon as I did the Panther or the Cromwell.  So for me the fun of an I&I is found amongst the participants and not so much the activities.  That said I will summarize what I believe to be the best practices for planning an I&I.

1. Everything takes twice as long as you expect.  Getting Tanknetters to move in the same direction at the same time is like herding cats.  There will be impromptu seminars on things like the use of the small tracked digger that is being used to dig up a sidewalk for repair, different methods of pre-paying parking lots and the relative merits of store window maniquins.  Tanknetters cannot walk and talk at the same time so instructional circles will form while anything is discussed.  Someone will always dart off to buy smokes, water or fridge magnets minutes before your expected departure time.

2. Related to 1, don't get too ambitious one minor museum or activity per half day is as much as you can do with any group over 4.  Major museums will consume the best part of day.  With this in mind, lunch is all about fuel, be ready to grab something at the museum cafe, or a snack stand.  That said if you have the time then lunch at a pleasant cafe or pub is perfectly fine, expect to spend no less than 2.5 hours getting it though.  Googling restaurants near me is a godsend, places with over 4.4 stars and more than 100 reviews are generally bullet proof.

3. Plan your dinners in advance, especially if you are not eating at the hotel.  It is difficult to find places that will take a large group with 0 notice.  Eat dinner later than normal, this gives you time to complete the day's activities and not have to rush to dinner. However, be aware of restaurant closing times.

4. Tanknetters skew older, walking is fine but expect to need to stop and admire the scenery fairly often to allow people to catch up, rest backs or just breathe.  The gasping and wheezing from a column of tanknetters is alarming but silence (possibly followed by a thud) is worse.

5. If you intend to pay for the group (meals, museum tickets, train tickets, etc.) announce it in advance.  Since tanknetters move in a blob and are very online people you will inevitably end up buying a ticket or something for someone who has bought theirs in advance.  

6. The schdule is a guide, it should be flexible to account for unexpected crowds, closing/opening changes or stumbling upon something else on the way.  

7. Communication is key, send links to destinations and online ticket purchase pages on the group chat.  Make sure everyone is aware of start times and departure times. Don't expect anyone to scroll back to a message you sent 2 months prior to the event.  Update the initial post on the forum with the final schedule and the list of attendees as you have the info.  Google maps may or may not suck and be a huge privacy problem, but it's damn near ubiquitous so use it for the I&I it means everyone will be finding the routes more or less the same way.

Finally make sure you read the signs before you buy a cruise ticket. 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/sGU38FgG6zy8dKag6

Check the surroundings of the hotel! So you don't end up in the middle of nothing but other hotels. When there's a town just outside walking distance. 

[Leo Niehorster]

6 hours ago, Harold Jones said:

Harsh but fair.  We are basically becoming dwarves.

 

As long as we don't start wearing pointy hats. 

[Leo Niehorster]

"Check the surroundings of the hotel! So you don't end up in the middle of nothing but other hotels. When there's a town just outside walking distance. "

Hotels are primarily selected for their proximity to the airport participants are arriving at and departing from , and providing shuttle services. 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Leo Niehorster

[Markus Becker]

29 minutes ago, Leo Niehorster said:

"Check the surroundings of the hotel! So you don't end up in the middle of nothing but other hotels. When there's a town just outside walking distance. "

Hotels are primarily selected for their proximity to the airport participants are arriving at and departing from , and providing shuttle services. 

That was our main priority but we might have been able to get a place closer to a town. 

[sunday]

Or, participants should carry supplies for the initial insertion that should endure till the availability of motorized transport later in the I&I.

Pretty much like paratroopers in Market Garden.

[urbanoid]

Only with (a lot) more success?

[DB]

Well, we all got out alive, so that's a definition of success I would endorse.

[Harold Jones]

On 5/27/2023 at 1:07 PM, Markus Becker said:

That was our main priority but we might have been able to get a place closer to a town. 

We could have moved on to someplace else after the initial night in the airport hotel but we also could made it a point to grab supper before returning to the hotel.  The problem with that is that it would have deprived our drivers of their well deserved drinks with dinner.  Luckily the hotel restaurant was fine and very accommodating of our largish group and had just enough variety to get us through the four or five dinners we had there.

[sunday]

I think we ended with a good hotel option: free, and quick, airport shuttle, free, and safe, parking, several close gas stations, quick access to motorways, no traffic jams, not outrageously expensive, and good enough breakfast, and a quite nice restaurant with friendly, and fun, waiting staff.

If anyone wanted to buy emergency supplies, then the airport was 10 minutes away by shuttle.

Edited May 29, 2023 by sunday

[seahawk]

Nice2 to see you had fun. As I broke my ellbow recently, driving to Miltracks was no option.

[Markus Becker]

Last but not least Day 4 in Den Helder.

Uneventful trip getting more and more scenic the closer we got to the coast. Spotted old bunker on the way in and out. Gun positions from the lookso f them.

The naval museum occupies the smaller part of the historic late 18th century dockyard. Most is restaurants and warf for smaller craft. The canal around the complex was fairly full of all sorts of old ships ranging from a big light ship to a canal boat.

The biggest attraction is the ex HNLMS Tonijn a 60s diesel boat propped up next to one of the buildings. Speaking of, those were among other things full of many models of all the different Tromps, De Ruyters and Seven Provinces whose names they kept reusing. Didn't see a Van Galen though.

The sub was boarded through the torpedo loading hatches. Cramped as usual, but with three restrooms though.

The other large piece on exhibition was the command tower of the 70s AA frigate De Ruyter. Pretty impressive radar. First 3D and at 20 rpm the air inside the radar dome was going at force 7.

Then Matt and I took a quick walk around an 1880s armored ram/turret ship because people got hungry.  I did an even quicker through the minesweeper Abraham Crijnssen aka the fake tropical island, fearing we might not make it back in time after lunch. We didn't.

Hitched a ride in the 🦁 mobile for the way back and discovered why we were always beat. Apparently a speed limit can be a mere suggestion.

At the hotel we hit the restaurant for more food and drink until close up.

[DB]

One additional thing about the Tonijn design.

The Dutch designer, working in Britain during the war, was asked to develop a design for a Malta convoy cargo submarine. By the time the design was mature enough, the need for covert convoys was largely over so the design was shelved.

When, post-war, he went back to The Netherlands, he took the design principle with him. The Tonijn has three cylindrical pressure hulls, arranged with two below the third. The top hull contains the torpedo rooms and living spaces. The lower hulls contain the fuel, batteries and engines. A docent claimed that this design offered very good quieting. Perhaps it gave more volume for isolation measures.

[Leo Niehorster]

Just received a €310 fine for going 26km over the speed limit on 21 May on the A1.🚔

[BansheeOne]

I'm glad that traditions are being upheld. 😁

[Leo Niehorster]

😎

[sunday]

24 minutes ago, Leo Niehorster said:

Just received a €310 fine for going 26km over the speed limit on 21 May on the A1.🚔

That sucks, I am sorry.

I shall pray to Saint Christopher...