Church Wars (From: Culture Wars)

[Murph]

But has it been this bad before?  I think yes, but I certainly did not live through it.  

[sunday]

2 minutes ago, Murph said:

But has it been this bad before?  I think yes, but I certainly did not live through it.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saeculum_obscurum

Still, the banning of the Tridentine Mass could be a new low.

[seahawk]

1 hour ago, sunday said:

I can, but I do not use to feed trolls.

Well, I do not follow the Spanish news that much about that topic, but here in Germany there are plenty cases and one could not say that the Catholic church is really helpful in clearing things up or in helping the victims. Just this months one investigation found out that in the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Freiburg alone, at least 540 children have been molested by 250 priests in the last 45 years. It also found out that the molesters were protected by the Bishops. (the Bishops because all 2 of 3 in power during the time, did so - only the current one does not)

Links in German:

https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/baden-wuerttemberg/suedbaden/erzbistum-freiburg-ag-aktenanalyse-veroeffentlicht-missbrauch-abschlussbericht-100.html

https://ge-kommission-freiburg.de/

And a law that is not enforced is practically meaningless.

[rmgill]

9 hours ago, Murph said:

No Steven, the Church as we know it is dead.  It will not come back.  Now what might or might not arise from the ashes of evil, who can tell.  I am waiting for the Catholic Church to offer abortions on the high altar as "sacred dancers" dance around the corpse of the fetus.  I am waiting for the various Protestant Churches to offer child genital mutilation services at the high altar.  The Church is dead.

Main organized churches are dead. Smaller churches are arising as they reject the organized churches. 

My uncle's Methodist Church of Auburn AUMC has just 'gone homosexual'. The bulk of the membership has left and has just formed their own new church. The main one will die with the bishopric or what ever it is, liquidating the church for local Auburn University parking lots or something. 

[17thfabn]

1 hour ago, rmgill said:

My uncle's Methodist Church of Auburn AUMC has just 'gone homosexual'. The bulk of the membership has left and has just formed their own new church. The main one will die with the bishopric or what ever it is, liquidating the church for local Auburn University parking lots or something. 

Could they have stayed and voted themselves into the new Methodist group?

Does the membership in Methodist church control each individual church?

[rmgill]

47 minutes ago, 17thfabn said:

Could they have stayed and voted themselves into the new Methodist group?

Does the membership in Methodist church control each individual church?

They do. But the Diocese or what not organized the vote and only 50 or so members were alerted...mostly the ones that voted FOR the move to accept gay members and ministers. 

[Rick]

18 hours ago, Murph said:

No Steven, the Church as we know it is dead.  It will not come back.  Now what might or might not arise from the ashes of evil, who can tell.  I am waiting for the Catholic Church to offer abortions on the high altar as "sacred dancers" dance around the corpse of the fetus.  I am waiting for the various Protestant Churches to offer child genital mutilation services at the high altar.  The Church is dead.

1 Kings 19:18. This is expanded on in Romans 11. 

[sunday]

6 hours ago, rmgill said:

They do. But the Diocese or what not organized the vote and only 50 or so members were alerted...mostly the ones that voted FOR the move to accept gay members and ministers. 

This seems to be becoming a trend in US democracy...

[DB]

One could argue that there is a concerted(*) effort to undermine the church (I mean, all churches) by those who have been indoctrinated to understand that religion is bad. They do think all religions are bad, but Christianity has developed along the lines of a pacifistic approach to life, whereas at least one other is not scared of making threats and acting on them.

The issue with the church is that generally speaking they do not seem to realise that the active opposition to their existence, for whatever reason, means that they are subject to far more scrutiny than they would have been historically.

In turn this requires that they be far better at evicting "bad apples" from their ranks. there are parallels with the discussions here about police forces - self policing works if and only if it is seen to be working, and once confidence has been lost, it can be impossible to regain, because the pressure from those antagonistic to the church will not be relieved.

(*)Note that concerted can be read as meaning that there is a globally coherent conspiracy to undermine the church, whereas I think that instead it's a lot of diverse interests that are pushing in broadly the same direction, from atheists to political activists, to those who genuinely have been mistreated by church officials. They're fellow travellers, not specifically companions.

[seahawk]

Does it need much effort to undermine an organisation, like the German Catholic Church, that up to recently (2022) reserved itself the right for fire employees that were gay or married twice, while priests involved in child molesting cases where quickly sent to another city and faced no further prosecution?

[DB]

I think that there's been plenty enough failures for many of the criticisms to be considered valid. I think that some with ulterior motives are far more interested in the destruction of the institutions rather than their being fixed.

"Defund the churches!"

[Murph]

Proof the church is dead: God is trans at a Catholic Church endorsed and supported by the church:  https://www.dailywire.com/news/nyc-catholic-church-facing-backlash-for-god-is-trans-exhibit

[Colin]

A Muslim and a Agnostic walk into a United Church......

and bought beer and raffle tickets, seriously that's what we did last night. Plus danced the night away. The United Church is 20% Christianity and 80% community. I know my wife is not the only Muslim there.

[sunday]

5 hours ago, Murph said:

Proof the church is dead: God is trans at a Catholic Church endorsed and supported by the church:  https://www.dailywire.com/news/nyc-catholic-church-facing-backlash-for-god-is-trans-exhibit

Let's see what are the disciplinary measures taken against the guilty. I would not wait with baited breath, since another, more orthodox priests had been defrocked by way less.

See the case of Fr. Frank Pavone, for instance: https://www.frankpavone.com/

Still, nothing new under the sun. A great saint, and Doctor of the Church, Saint John of the Cross, was literally disciplined by some rebellious monks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_the_Cross#Foundations,_imprisonment,_torture_and_death

[Murph]

The Church will defrock an orthodox priest, but keep the gay-transvestite-anti-Christian priests and promote them.  Look at the jokes that are the US Conference of Bishops.  

 

[sunday]

But there still remain orthodox priests to defrock, that is a reason for optimism.

[Murph]

No, they are going after the real priests instead of the gay/trannie activists priests.  Look at this article, it reeks of; "Oh my God, we got caught, now we have to appear to be taking this seriously so that we can save our cushy jobs and perks!"  

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/05/ultra-woke-nyc-catholic-church-displays-god-is-trans-exhibit-prompting-archdiocese-to-investigate/

Another excellent take on this:  https://pjmedia.com/culture/robert-spencer/2023/05/08/you-knew-this-was-coming-nyc-catholic-church-hosts-god-is-trans-exhibit-n1693575

The idiot Pope and his Jesuit brethren, along with all the liberal heirarchy have destroyed the Church.

 

[sunday]

6 hours ago, Murph said:

...have destroyed the Church.

Some have tried, still trying, but Matthew 16:18 is still valid

Quote

And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

Better in Latin

Quote

Et ego dico tibi, quia tu es Petrus, et super hanc petram aedificabo Ecclesiam meam, et portae inferi non praevalebunt adversus eam.

 

[Murph]

A lot of things are better in Latin.  My comment to the pedos/trannies in the Church:

adolebitque in inferno puer molester

[Der Zeitgeist]

[Murph]

Well when nothing is sacred, nothing really matters, I guess.  Also the Gay Bible re-write apparently is in full swing, so how long before the Pope blesses it?

https://pjmedia.com/columns/chris-queen/2023/06/16/dismantling-one-of-the-pride-cults-arguments-for-gay-bible-characters-n1703917

[sunday]

9 hours ago, Murph said:

Well when nothing is sacred, nothing really matters, I guess.  Also the Gay Bible re-write apparently is in full swing, so how long before the Pope blesses it?

https://pjmedia.com/columns/chris-queen/2023/06/16/dismantling-one-of-the-pride-cults-arguments-for-gay-bible-characters-n1703917

As the thing about priestesses, this seems to be confined to progressive protestant denominations.

[Murph]

Yes but now they are claiming David was gay.

[sunday]

Degenerates will always make degenerate claims.

[Murph]

The modern Church: