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Church Wars (From: Culture Wars)


Murph

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57 minutes ago, Murph said:

The local priest went on a rant in Mass over something Trump had done regarding illegals, and that was the LAST time I showed up in Church.  The local Archbishop in San Antonio is in to all the fashionable lefty causes, and it is just terrible.  I am waiting for the Pope to hold sacred dancing, and start allowing people to optionally believe in the bible.  Sorry, did not mean to turn this into a religion page.  

At least the Greek Orthodox seem to hold the line, and actually believe in the bible.....  Wasn't there a church group/ denomination that had a transvestite bishop or something?  

You can't go wrong with any of the orthodox churches, greek, russian, anatolian, etc.  Plus the food....

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1 hour ago, sunday said:

I should tell that there is only one True Church, nevertheless, and one should always keep in mind Matthew 16:18.

Here is my spin on the passage being somewhat comical.

Jesus tells Peter your the boss while I'm not around.

He didn't tell him to wear a big funny hat, fancy robes and carry a big golden cross on a big stick.

He didn't tell him build an empire.

He didn't tell him to get involved politics.

He didn't say you get to pick a successor.

Since we are thread drifting:

When did the Roman Empire end? There are three common answers:

1.) The most common, 476 with the first barbarian emperor.  

2.) The fall of Constantinople in 1453.

3.) The Roman Empire never ended. The catholic church is the continuation of the Roman Empire. 

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19 minutes ago, 17thfabn said:

Here is my spin on the passage being somewhat comical.

Jesus tells Peter your the boss while I'm not around.

He didn't tell him to wear a big funny hat, fancy robes and carry a big golden cross on a big stick.

He didn't tell him build an empire.

He didn't tell him to get involved politics.

He didn't say you get to pick a successor.

Since we are thread drifting:

When did the Roman Empire end? There are three common answers:

1.) The most common, 476 with the first barbarian emperor.  

2.) The fall of Constantinople in 1453.

3.) The Roman Empire never ended. The catholic church is the continuation of the Roman Empire. 

Well, you are the guys defending that no interpretation of the Bible is better than other.

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6 minutes ago, sunday said:

Well, you are the guys defending that no interpretation of the Bible is better than other.

"Well, you are the guys defending that no interpretation of the Bible is better than other."

?

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14 minutes ago, 17thfabn said:

"Well, you are the guys defending that no interpretation of the Bible is better than other."

?

In principle, a Protestant should not be able to condemn no spin of the Bible, as outrageous it could be.

That could be one of the reasons of the multiplicity of Protestant denominations.

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19 minutes ago, sunday said:

Well, you are the guys defending that no interpretation of the Bible is better than other.

It's not the interpretation of the Bible it's the person who leads the church at the times interpretation is the issue.

 Many people throughout time have used thier interpretation of the bible to justify doing things that contradict what is contained within the same bible they are interpreting. Especially that fifth commandment springs to mind.

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7 minutes ago, sunday said:

In principle, a Protestant should not be able to condemn no spin of the Bible, as outrageous it could be.

That could be one of the reasons of the multiplicity of Protestant denominations.

With protestant denominations it is more a case of each having their own take on scriptures. 

Human nature being what it is, each denomination knows they are right and the others are wrong. That includes not only the protestants, but also the catholics and orthodox.

People tend to either stay with the religion they were raised with, drift away or find a religion that matches their beliefs.

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3 minutes ago, 17thfabn said:

People tend to either stay with the religion they were raised with, drift away or find a religion that matches their beliefs.

Nowadays it's a little bit of the staying with what you were raised with and a lot of drifting away.  The latter isn't necessarily folks becoming atheists... the data seems to be all over (combination of some no longer having any faith, some going agnostic, some still considering themselves the faith they were raised in while being tired of the hypocrisies of their churches, the list goes on...).  The net result, though, is church attendance is gong down everywhere and those who identify with a faith dropping slowly over time in those same areas (last I saw in the EU this is happening at a decent clip but much slower in the US).

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1 hour ago, 17thfabn said:

Here is my spin on the passage being somewhat comical.

Jesus tells Peter your the boss while I'm not around.

He didn't tell him to wear a big funny hat, fancy robes and carry a big golden cross on a big stick.

He didn't tell him build an empire.

He didn't tell him to get involved politics.

He didn't say you get to pick a successor.

Since we are thread drifting:

When did the Roman Empire end? There are three common answers:

1.) The most common, 476 with the first barbarian emperor.  

2.) The fall of Constantinople in 1453.

3.) The Roman Empire never ended. The catholic church is the continuation of the Roman Empire. 

And I cannot argue a single point you have made.  

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Looks like this was spun off from the culture wars thread. I wondered how far we could thread drift!

Hopefully we can keep it civil and not start another Thirty Years War.

NO DEFENESTRATION of SUNDAY please! Rumor has it he doesn't bounce. 😉

This is a challenge to all to see if we can keep this thread open and not get any one banned or the thread locked.

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Well, it is not like I am not used to discuss against several people.

Back to the topic, I think I learnt a lot about the differences between Protestantism and Catholicism reading this book:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/68538.Rome_Sweet_Home

The faithful pass, priests pass, bishops pass, Popes pass, but Christ and his Church remain.

 

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All can't be right but all defend as if themselves the right one. It becomes unresolvable because even be number 2 means imperfect understanding and ways of conducting, and imperfect in this regard is a challenge to the whole organization. Inability to agree on little things becomes the engine of more interpretations and denominations over time and the decay of human character in organizations another factor of the result of more and more denominations. So now, there are so many kinds of Christain sectors so then it starts just looking overly complex more fake as a whole. Hence the downgrade of the whole and all at once. At some point, the of denominations start to decrease, and then the complexity and fake image also starts to decrease. So then there's a rebound with one of the remaining organizations leading the pack. So y'all need to cut from existance a several dozon Christain organizations.

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4 hours ago, sunday said:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/68538.Rome_Sweet_Home

The faithful pass, priests pass, bishops pass, Popes pass, but Christ and his Church remain.

Interesting that the book you reference is about a protestant couple that converted to catholicism. I've known plenty of catholics that have left the church, some going to other denominations, most just drifting away from religion all together. I don't think I've ever met any one who left a protestant denomination to become catholic. I've known a few people who married into catholic families that raised their kids catholic.  Of course my observations are only anecdotal. 

"but Christ and his Church remain." And that cuts to the crux of my opposition to the catholic religion. What is the pope? To the catholic faithful he is head of the church on earth. To protestants he is a usurper. 

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4 hours ago, 17thfabn said:

Interesting that the book you reference is about a protestant couple that converted to catholicism. I've known plenty of catholics that have left the church, some going to other denominations, most just drifting away from religion all together. I don't think I've ever met any one who left a protestant denomination to become catholic. I've known a few people who married into catholic families that raised their kids catholic.  Of course my observations are only anecdotal. 

"but Christ and his Church remain." And that cuts to the crux of my opposition to the catholic religion. What is the pope? To the catholic faithful he is head of the church on earth. To protestants he is a usurper. 

Yes, it is interesting, as the Hahns when to look for the ultimate truth of Christianism, and found it in the Roman Catholic Church. They were not the first ones, as the life of John Henry Newman shows.

The Pope, as Vicar of Christ in Earth is the head of the Church, and it could be understand as a symbol of unity. More on that.

The matter of unity is, perhaps, one of the biggest shortcomings of Protestant denominations.

 

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5 hours ago, 17thfabn said:

Interesting that the book you reference is about a protestant couple that converted to catholicism. I've known plenty of catholics that have left the church, some going to other denominations, most just drifting away from religion all together. I don't think I've ever met any one who left a protestant denomination to become catholic. I've known a few people who married into catholic families that raised their kids catholic.  Of course my observations are only anecdotal.

One of my former religion teachers at school, of all people, converted from Protestantism to Catholicism. But we always thought she was a little weird anyway. 😁

My brother #3 married a Catholic, and they were actually wed only under the condition to raise their kids Catholic; I understand this is a general rule. As a functional agnostic I shouldn't really care, but on general rather than religious principle, anyone giving me terms on how to raise my kids would make me tell them to fuck off along with the high horse they rode in on. As it is I have none, and their daughter seems happy serving as an altar girl. Which is what kids do in the villages back home in addition or alternately to joining the local sports club, shooters guild, youth fire brigade, and/or carnival association. 😋

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34 minutes ago, BansheeOne said:

My brother #3 married a Catholic, and they were actually wed only under the condition to raise their kids Catholic; I understand this is a general rule. As a functional agnostic I shouldn't really care, but on general rather than religious principle, anyone giving me terms on how to raise my kids would make me tell them to fuck off along with the high horse they rode in on. As it is I have none, and their daughter seems happy serving as an altar girl. Which is what kids do in the villages back home in addition or alternately to joining the local sports club, shooters guild, youth fire brigade, and/or carnival association. 😋

Yep, same with my family. My parents were only allowed to marry in church if us children would be raised as catholics. I've also been an altar boy for almost 10 years and back then I always enjoyed "working" inside the church. I only got out a few years ago after seeing how they dealt with the sexual abuse cases.

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I do not make too much out of the various Protestant denominations. Using the proper meaning of the noun diversity, there are many different people out of the two genders, and each will have their own way of achieving the same objectives of John 14:6 and Romans 10:9-14. Liked minded folks tend to mingle with their own kind, and will travel slightly different paths, but all arrive at the same destination of Heaven. 

We all have our God bestowed abilities and knowledge. This Grate Site is a prime example. 

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On 1/26/2023 at 12:27 AM, 17thfabn said:

I was under the impression that the Anglicans were more on the liberal side? 

The US and UK Anglican clergy are relatively liberal. The African Anglicans are very definitely not.

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5 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

One of my former religion teachers at school, of all people, converted from Protestantism to Catholicism. But we always thought she was a little weird anyway. 😁

My brother #3 married a Catholic, and they were actually wed only under the condition to raise their kids Catholic; I understand this is a general rule. As a functional agnostic I shouldn't really care, but on general rather than religious principle, anyone giving me terms on how to raise my kids would make me tell them to fuck off along with the high horse they rode in on. As it is I have none, and their daughter seems happy serving as an altar girl. Which is what kids do in the villages back home in addition or alternately to joining the local sports club, shooters guild, youth fire brigade, and/or carnival association. 😋

Same here, I had to agree to that.  Also to become Catholic, which at the time was not an issue, they had not gone psycho.  The priest mentioned children 5 times during the ceremony, and I was about to tell him to STFU on children.  My grandfather was grumbling at all the getting up, kneeling and sitting down.  He felt that it was too much.  

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16 minutes ago, Murph said:

My grandfather was grumbling at all the getting up, kneeling and sitting down.  He felt that it was too much.  

I've been to plenty of Baptist and Catholic services weddings and funerals.

Seems like weekly Catholic services are much quicker and regimented. When a Baptist minister gets on a roll the idea of a one hour service is an illusion.

But when it comes to wedding & funeral services the Catholics make up for the shorter Weekly service. 

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