2023 TV

[TrustMe]

1 hour ago, bojan said:

And thanks god there were none, why would you need to spoil good show with random space wizards?

But SW has always been about the Jedi. Take that away and you just have a slow building spy drama that because of age restrictions is meant for children. Jason Bourne it is not.

[Skywalkre]

12 hours ago, bojan said:

CD is not a fan of woke (to say at least), but he liked Andor:

It's seahawk... that comment was probably a bad attempt at trolling.  Nothing remotely woke in the entire series.

Btw, that CD vid was one of the reasons I went back to finish the series after pausing after ep3.

[bojan]

3 hours ago, TrustMe said:

But SW has always been about the Jedi. Take that away and you just have a slow building spy drama that because of age restrictions is meant for children. Jason Bourne it is not.

I think you have it backward - Bourne is children level spy thriller.

[NickM]

17 hours ago, seahawk said:

Andor was woke bullshit.

I kinda disagree, but many of the reactors on Y/T were woke: Everything is 'Western Imperialism' (The 'Highland Clearances' were mentioned prominently), this and British Colonialism that;  every time a tie fighter overflew something "IT'S LIKE THE COPS DOING DRIVEBYE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD" or the forced labor in that prison "IT'S JUST LIKE WORKING FOR AMAZON WAREHOUSE"...laughable coming from clearly suburban, upper middle class college types with the right melanin levels or ethnic background...

Edited June 9 by NickM

[NickM]

8 hours ago, bojan said:

And thanks god there were none, why would you need to spoil good show with random space wizards?

I was fond of Rogue One, it must be said. I thought the Rebellion thru the eyes of a bunch of nobody 'redshirts' and random Imperial mooks was awesome. After all, the 'rebellion' probably lasted in earnest, for over a decade (If not longer, before the 'official declaration') , and not every battle had the 'Skywalker Bunch' involved.

That being said, I think 'Andor' should have been further back. It's set only 5 years BTBOY (Before the Battle of Yavin) and we kinda know when Andor will meet his end; I don't think 2 or 3 years is enough time for him to become the 'crack' Intel operator he was in R1.

[seahawk]

6 hours ago, Skywalkre said:

It's seahawk... that comment was probably a bad attempt at trolling.  Nothing remotely woke in the entire series.

Btw, that CD vid was one of the reasons I went back to finish the series after pausing after ep3.

- lesbian couple

- super diverse cast

- evil characters are predominantly white men

[bojan]

5 hours ago, seahawk said:

- lesbian couple

So? Is being lesbian their only defining characteristic? No.

Quote

- super diverse cast

So? It is far future (or far past, however you want to frame it). Is anyone of those characters defined by their color of skin? No.

Quote

- evil characters are predominantly white men

So are a lot of good guys.

[TrustMe]

16 hours ago, bojan said:

I think you have it backward - Bourne is children level spy thriller.

Maybe that was the wrong example   but still the plot of Andor was extremely slow burning.

[bojan]

So is the one in "Army of Shadows" 

 

[Skywalkre]

On 6/8/2023 at 10:10 PM, seahawk said:

- lesbian couple

- super diverse cast

- evil characters are predominantly white men

Doesn't change my view that you were likely doing a poor attempt at trolling.  bojan already pointed out how the first point was something shown in passing.  The diverse cast has always been a staple of Star Wars.  The Empire was always 'Nazis in space' so nothing new there as well.  Two of your three issues were staples of the OT which took off in a much more conservative culture four decades ago.  To push that Andor was woke you're either an idiot or pulling your normal trolling BS.

[seahawk]

The lesbian couple alone makes it woke. It was totally unimportant for the story, but yet a checkbox had to be checked to further push down such unnatural relationships the throats of the viewers and program our children to accept such things as normal.

[R011]

11 hours ago, Skywalkre said:

Doesn't change my view that you were likely doing a poor attempt at trolling.  bojan already pointed out how the first point was something shown in passing.  The diverse cast has always been a staple of Star Wars.  The Empire was always 'Nazis in space' so nothing new there as well.  Two of your three issues were staples of the OT which took off in a much more conservative culture four decades ago.  To push that Andor was woke you're either an idiot or pulling your normal trolling BS.

The Mandalorian is trying to diversify the bad guys a bit.  Giancarlo Esposito is a major Imperial villain with Katy O'Brian as one of his hench people.

[Skywalkre]

22 hours ago, seahawk said:

The lesbian couple alone makes it woke. It was totally unimportant for the story, but yet a checkbox had to be checked to further push down such unnatural relationships the throats of the viewers and program our children to accept such things as normal.

In a show with aliens and 'the Force' you're upset with a lesbian couple being shown (briefly) because it's unnatural.

Umm, about that... 🤣🤣🤣

[Skywalkre]

15 hours ago, R011 said:

The Mandalorian is trying to diversify the bad guys a bit.  Giancarlo Esposito is a major Imperial villain with Katy O'Brian as one of his hench people.

Good call.  Forgot about that guy but had to look up who that other person was.  In my defense... I could never get into the series so don't really know the minor characters (but should have remembered him because he was covered a lot in the discussions I've seen).

[Ssnake]

Started "Lovecraft Country" (yeah, I'm behind the curve, but in my defense I read the novel before they turned it into a TV series). So far, I like it. Sure, "whites are the problem", but the premise of the entire book/show is the setting in Jim Crow areas.

[seahawk]

8 hours ago, Skywalkre said:

In a show with aliens and 'the Force' you're upset with a lesbian couple being shown (briefly) because it's unnatural.

Umm, about that... 🤣🤣🤣

All in the name of strengthening the trans and gay agenda.

[NickM]

National Geographic's Shark Fest 2023 has begun;

The usual didactic rattling off of environmental concerns (climate change, plastic pollution; bleaching coral reefs, overpopulation; die offs of whales) causing the shark attacks, when the end result is something mundane (rebound of prey animals bringing sharks close to shore; protection of 'endangered shark species results in a rebound of populations, bringing more inexperienced stupid teen sharks in contact with humans), which, of course was done for the best of intentions...

Not too many effeminate men or 'stunning and brave' wymmyn scientists this time==this year is the year of the 'body positive' female marine biologist, though there seems to be a lot of grizzled older male scientists 'mentoring' younger wymmyn PhD candidates.

Edited July 8 by NickM

[lucklucky]

Jack Ryan

Clumsy made, actors don't make feel they belong to an organisation, organisations and everything is done unprofessionally/unrealistic- scripts and dialogue are schoolyard level.  Tolerable for popcorn.

[Skywalkre]

This article may explain why I basically can't stand 99% of most modern movies and TV - when you don't pay writers, a major part of a production's success, and thus only the wealthy can afford to take part in the process you drastically cut down and limit your talent pool.

Quote

POV: I'm an experienced screenwriter - and I'm also on welfare.  My story highlights the importance of the writer's strike

Unfortunately, being a screenwriter is a job for rich people.

A typical screenwriter looks a lot like me: white, middle-class, and highly educated. I graduated from Cambridge, an elite institution. I’m a published author, having written a memoir at age 25, and I created and wrote a show that’s streaming on the BBC and Hulu. I have a one-hour dark drama about Ghislaine Maxwell being shopped around by some great U.S. producers, and I’m about to showrun a U.K. writers room to turn a talented, well-respected author’s book into a six-part series.

 

I’m also a single mom on welfare, relying on three different part-time jobs to fund my screenwriting career. I’m $50,000 in debt, and I share a bed with my 9-year-old in a one-bedroom apartment in Inglewood, California, because I can’t afford Los Angeles rent.

https://www.fastcompany.com/90918934/my-story-highlights-the-importance-of-the-writers-strike?utm_source=pocket-newtab

I think fans have done a better job in recent years being sympathetic to actors who put in great performances but were limited by trash scripts (take the entire run of the Witcher, for example, which has been in the news recently for how bad s3 continues to be).  Amazing in an industry as flush with cash (especially in recent years with all the influx of money to get these streaming services going) as Hollywood that they refuse to make reasonable efforts to properly pay writers.  Shock, surprise the rubbish we get in the end with this being the case.  🙄

Edited July 10 by Skywalkre

[Ssnake]

That's part of the equation.

Another is the inability of some directors and producers to recognize a bad script when reading one. They just don't care that much, or are dyslexic about storytelling.

It may also be that they know that a part of the audience is rather uncritical about the formulaic way on which stories are often told.

[Stuart Galbraith]

To be fair though, hasnt Hollywood ALWAYS screwed writers? Im a fan of Raymond Chandler, and im sure ive read that he had issues with the amount Studios were willing to pay, much less treated him. Even more pointedly, Scott Fitzgerald embarked on a career as a screenwriter, and even he couldnt make it work. Even Ridley Scott screwed the screenwriter for Bladerunner, because he stood by his work and refused to change it. So he fired him and got someone who did. Ditto Terry Gilliam for Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. Basically, Its what Hollywood does.

Maybe the real problem is less the amount paid, than the quality of the writers they now get. Im not sure many half talented writers today would even look at Hollywood, not just because of the money but the aggrevation. There are so many opportunities out there to get stuff published these days, even self publishing via ebooks. Maybe screenwriters just arent as good as they were getting 2 decades ago, because they are going in other directions. Science fiction writers can go straight into writing books, rather than scrabbling around trying to make ends meet writing science fiction periodicals like PK Dick did. Or at least, such is my impression.

I think its a big hint that the best science fiction (or fantasy like Game of Thrones) come from adapted novels, rather than written for the screen. Isnt it telling that GOT fell apart when they ran out of novel to adapt and had to make it up on the fly?

Just a personal view of course.

[Ssnake]

Benioff ans Weiss were certainly overrated. They got a five-year masterclass in storytelling, and learned nothing from it. Nothing.

[Harold Jones]

2 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

To be fair though, hasnt Hollywood ALWAYS screwed writers? 

Yes, I think there's even a movie or two about it.  I remember hearing a joke on an old episode of Johnny Carson where someone was talking about how little power writers had and they told an old Hollywood joke about the actress who was so dumb she slept with the writer.

I think a problem is that there are so many people who want to be writers and are willing to do anything to make it into "a room" that it is easy for the system to exploit them.  Another bigger one is that a film's success or failure is generally put down to the director and that leads to the view that writers are just interchangeable parts. 

[Harold Jones]

I just watched Lancaster a documentary about the Lancaster bomber. It is voiced mainly by surviving Lancaster crewmen and features a ton of video of a surviving Lancaster in flight.  If you can find it, it is well worth the time.

 

[lucklucky]

A bit crazy and entertained.