War in Ukraine, technical and military aspects only

[Stuart Galbraith]

5 hours ago, crazyinsane105 said:

AMX vehicles again? Those things faired so poorly, the Ukrainians were definitely not a fan of them. 
 

https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/ukraine-commander-slams-french-tanks-as-thin-armored-impract

 

Why can’t they be given LeClercs instead?

Because they have onl got enough Leclercs for their own use, and there wont be any more built, because they knocked the factory down.

If I was them, Id go and have a look among private owners and see if they could find any AMX30's. I think they would do fine for infantry support.

[old_goat]

5 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Because they have onl got enough Leclercs for their own use, and there wont be any more built, because they knocked the factory down.

Thats no excuse! Ukraine needs those tanks to survive. If you think otherwise, you are pro russian! 

[Roman Alymov]

New type of "barn-armor", this time hedgehog-style

https://t.me/milinfolive/126413

[Soldier36]

The Russian Black Sea Fleet underwent training to combat underwater saboteurs and drones. These trainings are aimed primarily at eliminating threats from sea drones and combating underwater sabotage forces. The Russian coastal patrol boat Project 03160 "Raptor" was used in the exercises. The boat entered service in 2013. The boat is armed with a 14.5-mm Uprava-KORD combat module and two 7.62-mm 6P41 Pecheneg machine guns; there are Igla or Verba MANPADS on board. The boat is armored against 7.62x39 mm bullets. The boat's displacement is up to 23.0 tons, it reaches speeds of up to 88 km/h at a range of up to 555 km. The boat has a crew of 3 people and up to 20 paratroopers. details in the video.

 

 

[R011]

18 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Because they have onl got enough Leclercs for their own use, and there wont be any more built, because they knocked the factory down.

If I was them, Id go and have a look among private owners and see if they could find any AMX30's. I think they would do fine for infantry support.

If I were them, I'd park the AMXs and scrape together 31 T-72 or any other available tank.  Even T-55.

[KV7]

13 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

New type of "barn-armor", this time hedgehog-style

https://t.me/milinfolive/126413

What is the advantage of this over thin mesh at the same standoff ? The mesh should be much less labour intensive to produce, and maybe even lighter too. 

[bojan]

On 7/19/2024 at 2:20 PM, Perun said:

...Does anyone know how much of equipment Serbia sold to Ukraine...

Not known.

[RETAC21]

On Russian artillery production:

 

[ink]

On 7/19/2024 at 2:20 PM, Perun said:

Vučić snd Zelenski talked. Does anyone know how much of equipment Serbia sold to Ukraine

 

Tricky question. Officially, none. Serbian arms aren't being sold or sent to Ukraine like they are from other European countries. They're ending up there via third parties, which makes it impossible to track quantities.

I assumed, for example, that the Czech shells initiative would allow EU countries to buy Serbian munitions and send them to Ukraine. However, Bojan says that's unlikely since production capacities are maxed out and order books filled. So what's more likely is that they're being bought by Ukraine's allies from other customers. That's too many cooks spoiling the broth to make it easily traceable.

[Stuart Galbraith]

On 7/20/2024 at 3:05 PM, old_goat said:

Thats no excuse! Ukraine needs those tanks to survive. If you think otherwise, you are pro russian! 

I give myself away so easily dont I.

 

[KV7]

On the barrel forging issue, see the link. 

It is however unclear how many of these 26 forges are in working order. I am a little surprised the USSR didn't have their own model.
 

 

[RETAC21]

32 minutes ago, KV7 said:

On the barrel forging issue, see the link. 

It is however unclear how many of these 26 forges are in working order. I am a little surprised the USSR didn't have their own model.
 

 

Obviously they didn't feel the need, if they had fought WW2 with imported machines. See the link I posted above.

[KV7]

3 hours ago, RETAC21 said:

Obviously they didn't feel the need, if they had fought WW2 with imported machines. See the link I posted above.

I do not have a twitter account and so cannot view threads.

In any case they now can import suitable products from China if they need to, for example the TMH20/15MN large radial precision forging machine which can produce up to 480mm diameter pieces with work pressure of up to 20 MN.

Edited July 22 by KV7

[alejandro_]

3 hours ago, RETAC21 said:

Obviously they didn't feel the need, if they had fought WW2 with imported machines. See the link I posted above.

That type of machinery can last decades with proper maintenance and overhauls. I am not surprised that they are still in use.

[RETAC21]

4 minutes ago, alejandro_ said:

That type of machinery can last decades with proper maintenance and overhauls. I am not surprised that they are still in use.

If they work, why throw them out. Patricia Marins, who tends to know her stuff also mentions some of there were reverse engineered. Short of it, we don't know how many barrels can Russia turn out.

[Stefan Kotsch]

4 hours ago, KV7 said:

It is however unclear how many of these 26 forges are in working order. I am a little surprised the USSR didn't have their own model.

It is also unclear how many of the forging machines were suitable for large-caliber artillery barrels.
The linked CIA report writes:
For example, the Austrian firm GFM has sold since the late 1960s at least 26 automated rotary forges to the USSR that have been used to produce gun barrels for the T-72 tanks and T-64 tanks, towed and self-propelled artillery, assault rifles, and machineguns.

The number 26 also includes small calibers. And of course there was a much greater need for them.

And, the GFM SHK-10 is predominantly known in Russian media. But this forge is only for pipes up to 45 mm.

Edited July 22 by Stefan Kotsch

[Roman Alymov]

3 minutes ago, Stefan Kotsch said:

It is also unclear how many of the forging machines were suitable for large-caliber artillery barrels.
The linked CIA report writes:
For example, the Austrian firm GFM has sold since the late 1960s at least 26 automated rotary forges to the USSR that have been used to produce gun barrels for the T-72 tanks and T-64 tanks, towed and self-propelled artillery, assault rifles, and machineguns.

The number 26 also includes small calibers. And of course there was a much greater need for them.

Note it is "at least 26" so 26 is only bottom line estimation, without breakdown (as you have correctly pointed out) by caliber, but also without breakdown by what part of USSR they ended up when country fell apart etc. Nothing to debate here since not enough initial information given.

    The only thing telling is we are not provided with actual figures of both barrels produced and forgers in use (while, no doubt, West have this numbers and will publish them if they are bad enough, since it is big political demand for any bad news from Russia to support current administrations)

[Roman Alymov]

War of robots: pro-Rus FPV vs. pro-Ukr remote-controlled/robotic tracked supply carrier https://t.me/boris_rozhin/130866

[JWB]

 

[JWB]

 

[crazyinsane105]

1 hour ago, Stefan Kotsch said:

It is also unclear how many of the forging machines were suitable for large-caliber artillery barrels.
The linked CIA report writes:
For example, the Austrian firm GFM has sold since the late 1960s at least 26 automated rotary forges to the USSR that have been used to produce gun barrels for the T-72 tanks and T-64 tanks, towed and self-propelled artillery, assault rifles, and machineguns.

The number 26 also includes small calibers. And of course there was a much greater need for them.

And, the GFM SHK-10 is predominantly known in Russian media. But this forge is only for pipes up to 45 mm.

It is 1950s technology after all. I don’t think the Russians are that backwards where they can’t replicate this type of equipment. Hell, countries even less advanced than Russia like India can get it done 

[Stefan Kotsch]

29 minutes ago, crazyinsane105 said:

I don’t think the Russians are that backwards where they can’t replicate this type of equipment.

A Russian website:"Radial crimp forging machine [GFM SHK-110], manufactured in Russia, analogue of GFM (Austria). Made according to the Austrian GFM machine." 
https://www.chipmaker.ru/topic/228174/

Correct, this specific machine was recreated. But that's only one side of the coin. Russia underwent a massive transformation of its economy in the decades after 1990. The mechanical engineering industry has reduced capacity like never before. If in 1980 about 43,000 forging presses were manufactured, in 2020 there were only 3,400.

Many companies have reduced production capacity or gone bankrupt. Companies have sold or scrapped large numbers of machines. And that also applies to the defense companies (!). The lost capacities have not yet been restored. Despite all efforts and certain successes.

[crazyinsane105]

21 minutes ago, Stefan Kotsch said:

A Russian website:"Radial crimp forging machine [GFM SHK-110], manufactured in Russia, analogue of GFM (Austria). Made according to the Austrian GFM machine." 
https://www.chipmaker.ru/topic/228174/

Correct, this specific machine was recreated. But that's only one side of the coin. Russia underwent a massive transformation of its economy in the decades after 1990. The mechanical engineering industry has reduced capacity like never before. If in 1980 about 43,000 forging presses were manufactured, in 2020 there were only 3,400.

Many companies have reduced production capacity or gone bankrupt. Companies have sold or scrapped large numbers of machines. And that also applies to the defense companies (!). The lost capacities have not yet been restored. Despite all efforts and certain successes.

How many forging presses are actually needed for Russia to continue its war effort? I doubt the number is in the thousands. Just a few hundred will be good enough. Not to mention that there are probably more efficient presses which have been in production for a while.

 

[Roman Alymov]

23 minutes ago, Stefan Kotsch said:

A Russian website:"Radial crimp forging machine [GFM SHK-110], manufactured in Russia, analogue of GFM (Austria). Made according to the Austrian GFM machine." 
https://www.chipmaker.ru/topic/228174/

Correct, this specific machine was recreated. But that's only one side of the coin. Russia underwent a massive transformation of its economy in the decades after 1990. The mechanical engineering industry has reduced capacity like never before. If in 1980 about 43,000 forging presses were manufactured, in 2020 there were only 3,400.

Many companies have reduced production capacity or gone bankrupt. Companies have sold or scrapped large numbers of machines. And that also applies to the defense companies (!). The lost capacities have not yet been restored. Despite all efforts and certain successes.

Congratulations, you have just discovered the reality pro-Russians were telling about for years. Below is Yandex-translation from Igor Strelkov, dated Aug 5, 2022 ( https://t.me/strelkovii/3052 )

"An interesting article. It would be worth thinking about... if only there was an opportunity to think for the people organizing the "jubilee, 13th" tank biathlon in the midst of a difficult and not too successful war so far.
_________________________
Will the Korean comrades come to the rescue?

 (https://zen.yandex.ru/media/proarm/pridut-li-na-pomosc-koreiskie-tovarisci-62ec2a84a9019f4a884f02e7)We have already published a short note on this topic on a duplicate channel (may readers forgive us the dark humor about Minsk-3, ugh, ugh, God forbid).

And now let's talk in more detail.

We will start with the fact that back in the distant peaceful year of 2018, there were talks (including quite official ones) about the decision to review the pace of implementation of the program with the beautiful name "Industrial disposal of weapons and military equipment for 2011-2015 and for the period up to 2020". In 2018, at least. Or maybe even earlier.

Suddenly they remembered that the objects intended for disposal often did not work out their resource, that they can be modernized using some secret "modern technologies" and even sold to third countries, although they themselves need to - the situation in the world is heating up, again friendly forces need to be armed with something.

And after all, our wise leadership looked into the water, slapping the greedy little hands of the defense businessmen who drove the shield and sword of the Motherland for rubles and dollars to the second floor. It's a pity it's too late.

After all, dashing times have come and the old hardware "unexpectedly" (who would have thought, yes, what a passage, this is in the age of hypersonic Kuzkin's mother 2.0!) seems to have found work again. And the point here is not in the allegedly huge losses, which is trumpeted by the propaganda of one still unfinished country-misunderstandings ( Ukraine - RA), but in the very method of conducting war based on an artillery offensive to maximize the preservation of the lives of its soldiers. Let's venture to assume that the T-62s that flashed in the photo in the Telegram channels "came to work" in their zone with self-propelled guns. That's just the range...

Guns were also disposed of for nothing, and even more actively than tanks, because it is much easier in terms of obtaining commercially available scrap. What remained in service or was urgently put into operation has a resource and it is NOT INFINITE.

In addition, some samples that shoot in the zone of their own have not been mass-produced for a long time.

The self-propelled 240 mm Tulip mortar is still firing, although production was discontinued back in 1988.

The role of barrel artillery in current events is huge. Ammunition consumption is the same. And the resource of military equipment (trunk, structural elements, chassis of a self-propelled system) is also being consumed rapidly at this rate. It takes time and production facilities to repair and restore, and they are staffed by highly qualified specialists, not guest workers.

We do not know what the relevant ranks of the Ministry of Defense, who slowed down the recycling program in time, will scrape together on the shelves. Let's hope that there are still long strings of things on the storage bases that can be revived and forced to pour on the heads of the adversaries the well-deserved and long-awaited Retaliation by the people without interruption and any gestures of goodwill.

But then North Korea flashed in the information space in connection with the mentioned events. Why would that be? In addition to the fact that the LPR-DPR is recognized as a "rogue state", about which the peace-loving public has already managed to make a contemptuous grimace, there is another important circumstance.

No, we are not talking about new migrant workers for Mr. X-lin ( Marat Husnulin, deputyPM for construction  - RA), the lord of the Human antfarms, this is a separate topic.

We are talking about the fact that North Korea has long been quite an "artillery power", and along this line it is one of the strongest in the world.

A forest of North Korean cannon barrels (and not at all doubtfully flying missiles) holds Seoul in eternal check - long-range systems are capable of turning the second half of Korea, starting from the capital, into a lunar landscape without any nuclear weapons in a very short time - the Big Overseas Brother will not have time to send cavalry to help.

North Korea has already had experience selling its artillery systems to both Africa and the Middle East. The most famous is the experience of using long-range 170 mm self-propelled guns of North Korea's own design in Iran and Iraq.

An Iranian 170mm self-propelled gun of North Korean manufacture. These guns caused a lot of problems to the Iraqis, being out of the return fire zone. The firing range of a conventional projectile is 40 km. And this is the 80s of the last century, however. Since then, the Korean comrades have not stood still and, according to a number of estimates, have brought the range of use of upgraded 170-mm systems for certain types of ammunition to 70 km, improving other characteristics, in particular the rate of fire.
The Korean leadership inspects its long-range guns.
We did not set out to analyze all available samples of artillery systems of the DPRK army, we just note that there are many of them. The country is isolated, a closed society, hunger-cold and juche, however, here is the paradox. Whether it's guns instead of oil, or something else, the current generation of effective managers cannot understand and repeat.

All this time, North Korea has been actively developing various versions of self-propelled installations based on tanks and artillery tractors for systems and calibers well known to us - 122 mm, 152 mm, 130 mm. That is, theoretically, their artillery systems can be integrated into our supply system without radical alterations - at least in terms of the use of conventional, unguided projectiles.

Is such a "cannon deal" possible and does Russia need it? The question is complicated, but there are unambiguous reasons for this - since Iranian drones are needed, then North Korean guns will not hurt either. At least to the same militia of the DPR-LPR. If there is a relationship, why not buy weapons or receive them as a gift, for example? There have been more curious precedents in history with the supply of weapons to a young and aggressive Israel, or here is a generous gift from the Vietnamese people of the GDR - a whole battalion of captured American armored personnel carriers.

The main factor here is China's attitude to the issue under discussion. It is possible to say with a high degree of confidence that if China "gives the go-ahead", military-technical cooperation with North Korea will take place.

Don't be ironic. The enemy is being pumped with weapons by the whole of Europe plus America and Canada. Specialists are going to these weapons in batches, and in some areas of the front, active military operations are mainly conducted by mercenaries from Europe, America, Canada, and from South Korea, too, by the way.

There is a war of resources, which, after all the miracles with the optimization of the structure of industry and the Armed Forces, we still have not as fantastic as we would like to believe. Both Iran and North Korea may well become important allies or partners in this situation. There's nothing funny here, there's a lot of sad stuff, that's right.

 

 

[Roman Alymov]

55 minutes ago, Stefan Kotsch said:

A Russian website:"Radial crimp forging machine [GFM SHK-110], manufactured in Russia, analogue of GFM (Austria). Made according to the Austrian GFM machine." 

P.S. By the way, what is you local media saying about Rico Krieger case?