War in Ukraine, technical and military aspects only

[alejandro_]

AIM-9 converted to SAM in Ukraine:

A recent success was to convert redundant US air-to-air AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles into surface-to-air missiles — an area of critical need given Russia continues to launch attacks on towns far from the front line.

“Those [AIM-9] missiles were out of operation,” said a senior Ukrainian official in reference to a batch of that type supplied to Ukraine. “We fixed them. We found a way of launching them from the ground. It’s a kind of self-made air defence.”

Those repurposed projectiles would help “get us through the winter” when Russia is expected to bombard Ukraine’s energy infrastructure to plunge the country into darkness, the official said, adding that this was not a long-term solution, however.

This was one of a number of such initiatives where they were converting old material deemed redundant by the US military into essential weaponry, the official said. “We have an agreed solution where we take something obsolete and make it something different.”

https://www.ft.com/content/69cf1288-0156-4b8f-a770-cacb05988596

In the past Yemen and Yugoslavia did similar things with R-27 and R-60.

[alejandro_]

On 10/22/2023 at 1:50 PM, bojan said:

With Yugoslav made 100mm M63 HE-Frag:

How can you tell is from Yugoslavia? Any idea of the manufacturing year?

[sunday]

18 minutes ago, alejandro_ said:

AIM-9 converted to SAM in Ukraine:

A recent success was to convert redundant US air-to-air AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles into surface-to-air missiles — an area of critical need given Russia continues to launch attacks on towns far from the front line.

“Those [AIM-9] missiles were out of operation,” said a senior Ukrainian official in reference to a batch of that type supplied to Ukraine. “We fixed them. We found a way of launching them from the ground. It’s a kind of self-made air defence.”

Those repurposed projectiles would help “get us through the winter” when Russia is expected to bombard Ukraine’s energy infrastructure to plunge the country into darkness, the official said, adding that this was not a long-term solution, however.

This was one of a number of such initiatives where they were converting old material deemed redundant by the US military into essential weaponry, the official said. “We have an agreed solution where we take something obsolete and make it something different.”

https://www.ft.com/content/69cf1288-0156-4b8f-a770-cacb05988596

In the past Yemen and Yugoslavia did similar things with R-27 and R-60.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-72_Chaparral

Now in a homegrown version!

[urbanoid]

Damn good idea tbh, for most targets its the number of AD assets that counts, not their superduperness. Also no reason to pay for dismantling of the expired Sidewinders, they'll be gone by shooting down Russian targets, as gods and designers intended.

[bojan]

On 10/24/2023 at 12:38 PM, alejandro_ said:

How can you tell is from Yugoslavia? Any idea of the manufacturing year?

Markings.

Right under his fingers holding projectile is M4x, from M44, designation for whole family of guns firing that ammo. Full marking should be "ZA TOP M44" "For gun M44"

Underneath it is P1, from M63P1 designation for M63 that was overhauled.

On the case also M44 is visible.

Underneath it is again P1, from M63P1 designation

...SPV 132/89 - powder batch. I am not sure about factory however.

Low on case you can see 11/90 - from the 11th batch made in 1990

Plus very characteristic green on the projectile (was used by Yugoslavia and is still used by most successor states for ammunition). That green turned my attention toward looking at markings a bit more careful.

Edited October 25, 2023 by bojan

[Josh]

1 hour ago, urbanoid said:

Damn good idea tbh, for most targets it’s the number of AD assets that counts, not their superduperness. Also no reason to pay for dismantling of the expired Sidewinders, they'll be gone by shooting down Russian targets, as gods and designers intended.

I would think the supply of old AIM-9L/M has to be in the tens of thousands.

[Markus Becker]

2 hours ago, alejandro_ said:

How can you tell is from Yugoslavia? Any idea of the manufacturing year?

Isn't it a bit unusual to have one piece ammo in a field gun as opposed to an AT gun? 

[Josh]

Isn’t NATO 105mm artillery also single piece?

[alejandro_]

Thanks Bojan

13 minutes ago, Markus Becker said:

Isn't it a bit unusual to have one piece ammo in a field gun as opposed to an AT gun? 

I am not following. BS-3 is an AT gun. Maybe you think is a field gun because of the HE-FRAG ammunition?

[sunday]

14 minutes ago, Markus Becker said:

Isn't it a bit unusual to have one piece ammo in a field gun as opposed to an AT gun? 

I think those Russian 100mm guns began as AT guns.

Dunno about the accuracy of this wikipedia article, but it says that the BS-3 was developed from a naval gun, and was both field gun and AT gun: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_mm_field_gun_M1944_(BS-3)

[KV7]

11 minutes ago, Josh said:

Isn’t NATO 105mm artillery also single piece?

The UK uses/used separate charges in Abbott and L118.

[sunday]

A comparison between East Ukraine terrain and Normandy's bocage, how to deal with "forested belts" when tactical surprise is impossible, etc.

https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/battle-for-avdeevka-close-study?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2

[glenn239]

2 hours ago, Josh said:

I would think the supply of old AIM-9L/M has to be in the tens of thousands.

China: number of registered drones 2020 | Statista

 

[JWB]

 

[Josh]

18 minutes ago, glenn239 said:

China: number of registered drones 2020 | Statista

 

I'm not sure why that is relevant? Is the population of China going to donate its drones to Russia, and are all of those drones capable of attacking infrastructure in Ukraine?

[alejandro_]

BMD-3 used for training in Russia

https://rg.ru/2023/10/24/redkie-bmd-3-zasvetilis-vpervye-posle-dlitelnogo-pereryva.html

[Daan]

T-55 in Russian service:

[TrustMe]

If there using T55's in Ukraine Russia must be desperate.

[Roman Alymov]

15 minutes ago, TrustMe said:

If there using T55's in Ukraine Russia must be desperate.

T-55 is of the same use for mobile indirect fire SPG as T-72 or T-90M, and indirect fire is the main type of tank actions now.

[Josh]

54 minutes ago, TrustMe said:

If there using T55's in Ukraine Russia must be desperate.

They have been used for some time  as fire support guns/infantry tanks. There were apparently T-55/62 refurbishment lines set up for the Syrians pre war that allowed for quick reintroduction of the types to Russian forces as second tier defensive units. Both sides are mobilizing whatever equipment can be most readily activated to create new reserves.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Josh

[glenn239]

6 hours ago, Josh said:

I'm not sure why that is relevant? Is the population of China going to donate its drones to Russia, and are all of those drones capable of attacking infrastructure in Ukraine?

The scale of the production threat going forward precludes anything as tiny as 10,000 old AIM-9 missiles is going to matter.  Whatever the defense, it'll need to be able to take care of hundreds of thousands of satellite, FPV and AI directed drones.

Edited October 24, 2023 by glenn239

[Perun]

17 hours ago, alejandro_ said:

AIM-9 converted to SAM in Ukraine:

“Those [AIM-9] missiles were out of operation,” said a senior Ukrainian official in reference to a batch of that type supplied to Ukraine. “We fixed them. We found a way of launching them from the ground. It’s a kind of self-made air defence.”

So they get missiles which were out of operation as a military help

[Perun]

7 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

T-55 is of the same use for mobile indirect fire SPG as T-72 or T-90M, and indirect fire is the main type of tank actions now.

How they use them, how many tanks are supporting how large infantry units

[Roman Alymov]

53 minutes ago, Perun said:

So they get missiles which were out of operation as a military help

Positive side of it is it is relatively small missile, and we will see less reports of "genocidal Russians are firing missiles at residential houses" as when it happens when 30+ yo S-300 are fired by UkrAD.....

[Roman Alymov]

1 hour ago, Perun said:

How they use them, how many tanks are supporting how large infantry units

I'm affraid it is not working in this orderly way of "every company got two supportive tanks". It is usually more dependent on drone teams availability (to direct fire), and infantry itself is only sending requests for fire missions.

Patrick Lancaster with Donetsk republic  Police SWAT tankers on this type of mission, in English

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Roman Alymov