NATO return to Cold War force structure

[Der Zeitgeist]

57 minutes ago, bojan said:

So if Serbia decides to do same thing about language as Baltic countries did and threatens to expel people who can not pass Serbian language proficiency*, Germany is not going to object, right? Same Germany that have pressured Macedonia to adopt Albanian as co-official language after Albanians organized armed revolt and campaign of terror there? 

One living in glass house should throw stones around.

*Which would be hilarious as hell, my guess that maybe 1/2 of population would pass it, regardless of formal nationality 

Sorry, I have no idea what "Germany" would do as I'm not a representative of its government.

[bojan]

"No idea". Yes, sure.

[urbanoid]

29 minutes ago, bojan said:

No need for high level, I am talking about basic Serbian* language test needed for a high school**... I am sure that 50+% of  30+y/o citizens of Serbia would be unable to pass it.

*If I was really evil I could advise Hungarian as an alternative.  

In some cases to obtain a Hungarian citizenship, language proficiency is required.
 

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In this case you can obtain Hungarian citizenship by simplified naturalisation if you speak Hungarian. Hungarian language knowladge (good communication level) is one of the conditions for Hungarian citizenship under the simplified naturalisation procedure, so the information about the whole procedure is available only in Hungarian. 

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If your Hungarian ancestor emigrated from Hungary before September 1, 1929, it is likely that his or her descendants were not born Hungarian citizens. You may be naturalized if you speak Hungarian. 

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If you have lost your Hungarian citizenship for any of the reasons listed below, you might reacquire it by means of a statement, and your children and grandchildren may apply for naturalization if they speak Hungarian:

you were deprived of your Hungarian citizenship by virtue of Act X of 1947 and Act XXVI of 1948, of Act LX of 1948 on Hungarian Citizenship or of Act V of 1957 on Citizenship;

your Hungarian citizenship ceased by expatriation between September 15, 1947 and May 2, 1990;

you were a person obliged to resettle in Germany.

https://varso.mfa.gov.hu/pol/page/hungarian-citizenship

[ink]

16 minutes ago, urbanoid said:

In some cases to obtain a Hungarian citizenship, language proficiency is required.
 

https://varso.mfa.gov.hu/pol/page/hungarian-citizenship

I think Bojan was saying you should need to know Hungarian to get Serbian citizenship.

I find it kinda funny reading this discussion. It's a meeting of separate worlds that I've stumbled upon before. People from "unitary states" like Poland have a hard time understanding people from more mixed states, and vice versa.

When we first met, a Polish friend asked me where I'm from. I said "it's complicated", at which point he kind of looked confused and said "how can it be complicated? Where were you born?". So I said, "well, for starters, that country doesn't exist any more" 😆

[bojan]

40 minutes ago, ink said:

I think Bojan was saying you should need to know Hungarian to get Serbian citizenship.

Purely as (only) alternative for those that don't want to learn Serbian

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So I said, "well, for starters, that country doesn't exist any more" 😆

My grandmother lived in 7 countries, never moving after she was 6 - Kingdom of Yugoslavia, Independent State of Croatia, Federative People Republic of Yugoslavia, Socialist Federative Republic of Yugoslavia, Federative Republic of Yugoslavia, State Union of Serbia and Monetenegro, Serbia.

Her neighbor in 8 - she born before 1929 name change from Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes to Kingdom of Yugoslavia.

 

  

1 hour ago, sunday said:

Ah, Slavic languages, the prerequisite for Slavs to be good at languages...

Serbian and Croatian are pretty easy to learn to read/write. Ofc, rest of iceberg is a grammar, main reason I am certain that 50+% of population of Serbia would not be able to pass high school level Serbian language exam.  

Edited July 10, 2024 by bojan

[ink]

Just now, bojan said:

Purely as (only) alternative for those that don't want to learn Serbian

Yeah, I figured!

For anyone interested in a real official language soup, look no further than Vojvodina.

Just now, bojan said:

My grandmother lived in 7 countries, never moving after she was 6 - Kingdom of Yugoslavia, Independent State of Croatia, Federative People Republic of Yugoslavia, Socialist Federative Republic of Yugoslavia, Federative Republic of Yugoslavia, State Union of Serbia and Monetenegro, Serbia.

Her neighbor in 8 - she born before 1929 name change from Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes to Kingdom of Yugoslavia.

Mine too! And, given she was born in 1912, had she been born a few km to the south she could easily have been born in the Ottoman Empire 😀 (and she died in 2007 so she lived to see Serbia become independent from Montenegro too 😎)

[Martineleca]

3 hours ago, sunday said:

I am not Russian, however.

Never claimed you were, but the talking points you use come straight from the Kremlin. Russians claiming to be concerned with the health of Europeans when they have slaughtered and genocided many millions of them since the first cursed Romanov came to power, through the Bolsheviks and on to today just shows how disingenuous they are. When Russia wages imperialistic wars to them it's like a weather event, something that's just bound to happen from time to time, for centuries...

[txtree99]

 

[Der Zeitgeist]

Time to get those protest signs from 1983 out of the basement, because GLCM is coming back. 😁

Edited July 11, 2024 by Der Zeitgeist

[Stuart Galbraith]

Oh sweet joy! I got my Cold War back!

 

[Martineleca]

1 hour ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

Time to get those protest signs from 1983 out of the basement, because GLCMS is coming back. 😁

Kind of doubt the Russian FSB and Chinese MSS combined have the resources and clout of the old KGB to organise the kind of mass treasonous "student" demonstrations and terrorism so prevalent in the past, BLM riots being the only exception...

[seahawk]

That will be met with a lot of resistance in Germany. The 80's will be nothing in comparison.

[Stuart Galbraith]

'Episodic deployments'. Are they actually saying no permanent presence? Because if so, it completely invalidates the whole point of them being there.

[Der Zeitgeist]

3 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

'Episodic deployments'. Are they actually saying no permanent presence? Because if so, it completely invalidates the whole point of them being there.

It's probably a political decision, trying to give them a smaller footprint for counter-protests. The protests in the 80s were highly local, focused on specific deployment sites like Mutlangen or Greenham Common. They will want to avoid repeating that.

Also, flying the systems in in times of crisis or as part of exercises provides additional options for escalatory steps.

Edited July 11, 2024 by Der Zeitgeist

[Stuart Galbraith]

If anything, that makes first strike for the Russians an even better case than it does right now. Alright, as a stepping stone towards permament deployment, I can see the point. But unless we get there as a end point, there is zero point deploying them on land at all. Far better to either stick them on arsenal ships, which was already envisaged, or even modifying the ABM facilities in Poland and Romania and stick them there.

[seahawk]

7 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

It's probably a political decision, trying to give them a smaller footprint for counter-protests. The protests in the 80s were highly local, focused on specific deployment sites like Mutlangen or Greenham Common. They will want to avoid repeating that.

Also, flying the systems in in times of crisis or as part of exercises provides additional options for escalatory steps.

The German government will hopefully not allow the placement of such weapons in Germany.

[Der Zeitgeist]

41 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

If anything, that makes first strike for the Russians an even better case than it does right now. Alright, as a stepping stone towards permament deployment, I can see the point. But unless we get there as a end point, there is zero point deploying them on land at all. Far better to either stick them on arsenal ships, which was already envisaged, or even modifying the ABM facilities in Poland and Romania and stick them there.

Like I said, it's best to see these systems as political tools to use as steps in an escalatory ladder. Their primary purpose isn't military utility.

They may also be useful during a Trump presidency. Having  the bestest super invisible hypersonic US weapons, they're so fast, you've never seen anything like it, and putting them in Germany and having the Germans pay for them could go a long way. ☺️

[futon]

Japanese hypersonic glider missile test launch conducted in California.

 

[sunday]

On 7/10/2024 at 12:13 PM, bojan said:

So if Serbia decides to do same thing about language as Baltic countries did and threatens to expel people who can not pass Serbian language proficiency*, Germany is not going to object, right? Same Germany that have pressured Macedonia to adopt Albanian as co-official language after Albanians organized armed revolt and campaign of terror there? 

One living in glass house should throw stones around.

*Which would be hilarious as hell, my guess that maybe 1/2 of population would pass it, regardless of formal nationality 

Seems the Dominican Republic uses similar means to fight Haitian illegal immigration, even recurring to some high-handed measures about ius sanguinis. The US govt did object.

Edited July 11, 2024 by sunday

[Josh]

7 hours ago, seahawk said:

The German government will hopefully not allow the placement of such weapons in Germany.

If the Germans don’t, the Poles will.

[Stuart Galbraith]

I shouldnt be surprised if the Finns did as well. Which would probably be the best placement of all.

[Martineleca]

2 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

I shouldn't be surprised if the Finns did as well. Which would probably be the best placement of all.

From there Tomahawks could hit everything west of the Urals, wonder if similar to the Pershing the new hypersonic missiles will be able to reach Moscow within a few minutes from launch, keep the Kremlin critters up at night for the first time in decades.

Edited July 11, 2024 by Martineleca

[Josh]

LRHW is stated to have a range of 1750, though I suspect that is a squishy number that changes depending on what the desired terminal speed is. At least one test of the glider extended to 2200 miles using a Polaris stack.

[txtree99]

 

[Roman Alymov]

3 hours ago, Martineleca said:

From there Tomahawks could hit everything west of the Urals, wonder if similar to the Pershing the new hypersonic missiles will be able to reach Moscow within a few minutes from launch, keep the Kremlin critters up at night for the first time in decades.

   I'm affraid you do not understand why Kremlin gerontocracy of 1980th was so affraid of weapons that could "reach Moscow within a few minutes from launch". They were Marxist true believers, in their world model triumph of Communism was inevitable, and all they needed was to prevent the global war started by incident, for example trigger-happy Major of Colonel who took stray missile or even birds for Western attack. Because of that they were unwilling to delegate their powers down to launch crews and sleep sound.  Now in modern Russia the concept is changing, and if the process will continue ib the same direction  - we will sooner or later see mobile launch crews traveling on Russian roads on their own, waiting for order or just nuclear attack detected. Not to mention other countries of the world increasingly reaching nuclear status. If Finland could have US nuclear missiles on its territory - why Russia can't have NK ones positioned in Russia? Just for the case if Western intelligence is successful in buying guys in Kremlin by promises to return their London palaces....