Colin Posted November 10, 2022 Posted November 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Murph said: He did, but according to Castles of Steel he thought that the RN could do it without landing an army, and was convinced by Kitchener to land troops. Kitchener, was he good, bad, a drain, toxic, or doing as best he knew how to do things? Had the operation worked and forced the Ottomans to agree to stay out of the war and allow shipments to Russia, then it would be considered amongst the RN's finest moments.
Murph Posted November 10, 2022 Author Posted November 10, 2022 4 hours ago, Sardaukar said: I think that you deducted that it was exactly not promotion-wise path LOL, I am going to have to use this in a conversation with a friend....
Murph Posted November 10, 2022 Author Posted November 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Colin said: Had the operation worked and forced the Ottomans to agree to stay out of the war and allow shipments to Russia, then it would be considered amongst the RN's finest moments. I agree.
Yama Posted November 10, 2022 Posted November 10, 2022 On 11/8/2022 at 1:45 AM, Argus said: There's a good argument to be made that knocking the Turks out early would have prolonged the war, as they amounted to a net drain on the Germans and Austrians compared to the Entante resources they diverted. This take I have not heard before, conventional wisdom is that Ottomans joining the war was huge boon for Central Powers, as Entente had to deploy millions of men to deal with them, and particularly British overseas campaigns were materially expensive. Amount of German personnel on Ottoman fronts was negligible, by contrast. Supposedly, Ludendorff said that without Turkey, Germany would have lost the war by 1916. However, it is certainly true that in terms of war material Ottomans were a drain to Germany. Whereas it can be debated if other major powers actually wanted a war, curiously it seems that it certainly was the case in Ottoman entry to the war. Ottoman war party was simply looking for excuses to join Central Powers, and on the other side many people in Russia and Great Britain seem to have been content to provoke the war with Ottomans, probably thinking all that cheap booty they would gain when the Empire would collapse. Whatever else the end result was, it was not cheap, and we're all (not just the Brits) paying the bill, still.
Yama Posted November 10, 2022 Posted November 10, 2022 7 hours ago, Colin said: Had the operation worked and forced the Ottomans to agree to stay out of the war and allow shipments to Russia, then it would be considered amongst the RN's finest moments. Sure thing, but like most of the Churchill ideas, it had low probability of working. When Turkish destroyer torpedoed Goliath, it launched a cascade which led to both Fisher and Churchill getting the boot. Supposedly, Hamilton's reaction was: "Turks deserve a medal."
Murph Posted November 14, 2022 Author Posted November 14, 2022 On 11/10/2022 at 5:55 PM, Yama said: Sure thing, but like most of the Churchill ideas, it had low probability of working. When Turkish destroyer torpedoed Goliath, it launched a cascade which led to both Fisher and Churchill getting the boot. Supposedly, Hamilton's reaction was: "Turks deserve a medal." You are probably correct in this assessment.
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