Perun Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Ahaa, but which one am I, Hamas or Fatah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perun Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 32 minutes ago, BansheeOne said: Still waiting to see those Israeli plans for gas chambers. Though I'm not holding my breath. Your sarcazm is not argument against Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 5 hours ago, Perun said: You might like it or not, but as I said, just look for the real facts on the ground. And those "stupidity" as you call them and brutality are not occasional, they are part of everyday life. You talk about democracy but you are trying to forbid a critique which is based on truth. No, im trying to stop a critique which involves the words 'Israelis' and 'Gas chambers'. Both for my reputation, such as it is, and for the site, which could really do without being associated with antisemitism. You want to criticize Israel, go right ahead. Ive done it myself, I flatter myself with infinite more sensitivity. You really dont have to do it so utterly cluelessly. You just make yourself look like a racist, and anyone that debates with you like an antisemite. Im willing to say nobody on this site is an antisemite. So why should we tolerate posting like we are? Please, Im asking you nicely, just fucking stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucklucky Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Perun said: Where did you find your "supremacist propaganda" in my writings? It seems to me that few of you guys are well indoctrinted and that for you the Truth is the enemy. It is actually worse. You think that Israel should help Palestinian supremacists destroy Israel. Edited September 30, 2022 by lucklucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 57 minutes ago, Perun said: Your sarcazm is not argument against Well, when people called you on your Nazi-Israel conflation of the Israelis going to build gas chambers to resolve the Palestinian question, you replied "Stop with propaganda cliche and look at the facts on the ground." So let's stop the propaganda clichés and see some facts about those Israeli gas chamber plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted September 30, 2022 Author Share Posted September 30, 2022 I will admit the Israelis can be bastards about tree and water well permits. But remind me of which Arab country could a Jew or a Palestinian win against the government and court and the government actually follows that ruling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunday Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, rmgill said: Given the stated objective of both Hamas and Fatah is the end of the Jewish state....it's rather connected. Well, same could have been said of the African National Congress (and Winnie Mandela methods were not very far from Hamas and Fatah ones), or of former Rhodesia's ZANU, and ZAPU. Moreover, those movements were successful in both countries, with the sad end we all know. Peter Grant had decried the actual situation on South Africa and Zimbabwe, but he also stated that the Apartheid regime was nothing to be proud of. Edited September 30, 2022 by sunday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perun Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 2 hours ago, lucklucky said: It is actually worse. You think that Israel should help Palestinian supremacists destroy Israel. Please stop thinking what I am think and just read what I wrote. If Israel act shamefully why we shouldnt say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perun Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said: No, im trying to stop a critique which involves the words 'Israelis' and 'Gas chambers'. Both for my reputation, such as it is, and for the site, which could really do without being associated with antisemitism. You want to criticize Israel, go right ahead. Ive done it myself, I flatter myself with infinite more sensitivity. You really dont have to do it so utterly cluelessly. You just make yourself look like a racist, and anyone that debates with you like an antisemite. Im willing to say nobody on this site is an antisemite. So why should we tolerate posting like we are? Please, Im asking you nicely, just fucking stop. We should not close our ayes just becouse some think otherwise. As I said just look to the real facts on the ground and stop hiding behinde "antisemitism". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perun Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 1 hour ago, BansheeOne said: Well, when people called you on your Nazi-Israel conflation of the Israelis going to build gas chambers to resolve the Palestinian question, you replied "Stop with propaganda cliche and look at the facts on the ground." So let's stop the propaganda clichés and see some facts about those Israeli gas chamber plans. IIRC I said that gas chambers would be next step. Could you show facts contrary that Israel is apartheid state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Sorry, no diversion tactics. You said it was "only question of time when Israelis will try to resolve Palestinian question by gas chambers". What are the facts on the ground that statement is based on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Perun said: IIRC I said that gas chambers would be next step. This has been going on since '48. Gas Chambers are next is something of a stretch. Quote Could you show facts contrary that Israel is apartheid state Arabs have more representation in Israeli Politics than Jews have in Fatah or Hamas politics. That itself is key to your point. The check points are because Pallys keep trying to kill jews and celebrate it when ever it happens, even when it's babies being murdered in cribs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Perun said: Please stop thinking what I am think and just read what I wrote. If Israel act shamefully why we shouldnt say that? Its a question of which party seeks to destroy the other. The situation started with the Arab world trying to destroy Israel. The portions of the Arab world that have desisted from that objective have found reconciliation with Israel and true peace. Those that persist with trying to destroy Israel continue to keep weapons pointed at them. With the situation where Hamas and Fatah are launching rickets and missiles at Israel, explain why they should not be subject to check points for entry to Israel? A state of war still exists. Put differently, if i was taking random potshots at your house with a rifle, would you still ask me to stay for dinner when ever I walked in the front door without being invited? Edited September 30, 2022 by rmgill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssnake Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Nice arguments, but as a German I'm still more intrigued by those gas chamber blueprints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunday Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perun Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 7 hours ago, BansheeOne said: Sorry, no diversion tactics. You said it was "only question of time when Israelis will try to resolve Palestinian question by gas chambers". What are the facts on the ground that statement is based on? "Only question of time" and "next step" what is a diference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perun Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 4 hours ago, rmgill said: Its a question of which party seeks to destroy the other. The situation started with the Arab world trying to destroy Israel. The portions of the Arab world that have desisted from that objective have found reconciliation with Israel and true peace. Those that persist with trying to destroy Israel continue to keep weapons pointed at them. With the situation where Hamas and Fatah are launching rickets and missiles at Israel, explain why they should not be subject to check points for entry to Israel? A state of war still exists. Put differently, if i was taking random potshots at your house with a rifle, would you still ask me to stay for dinner when ever I walked in the front door without being invited? It started when imigration of Jews started. Before that large majority of population was arabs. It is funny how some facts are forgoten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perun Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 I agree with some of you, there wont be peace in Palestine / Israel until both sides start to respect each other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Perun said: "Only question of time" and "next step" what is a diference I'm not saying it's much of a difference. I'm asking what facts the claim is based on. Edited September 30, 2022 by BansheeOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted September 30, 2022 Author Share Posted September 30, 2022 35 minutes ago, Perun said: It started when imigration of Jews started. Before that large majority of population was arabs. It is funny how some facts are forgoten The Jews were expelled from the region first by the Romans and then barred from returning by the Ottomans and limited by the French and British. If you look at census reports, you note that immigration into the area after it became a British Mandate increased, the immigration for Arab and Jews was a similar percentage in relation to the existing populations at the time. Note the British Mandate also reduced infant mortality significantly and the rebuilding of the port of Haifa was a major factor in the regions improvement, providing trade and jobs. Even the American mark Twain remarked on his journey to Jerusalem how barren and empty of life the region was under the Ottoman rule. Within the British government were two factions, one pro-Arab and one pro-Jewish, the struggle between these two factions led to some of the very odd behaviour by the government and British Citizens. Note there was no "State of Palestine", it had been a Ottoman Province for centuries and then a very brief period as a part of a Kingdom and then a British Mandate. So the population was mostly Arab, but a significant amount of the population of Arabs had only arrived there after the British arrived. Now how about you discuss what happened to all of the Jewish communities in the Middle East? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickM Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 (edited) Nevermind the rest of the mideast Jewish communities, as I recall the Jordanian Arab legion won most of its battles with the infant Israeli army and ended up in control of areas that had a sizeable Jewish presence. They expelled them all, then, keeping it classy, used the marble headstones in the Jewish cemeteries to build their latrines. Oh and no Palestinian state was set up in these Jordanian controlled areas, from 48 to 67. Edited September 30, 2022 by NickM spelling corrections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssnake Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Perun said: "Only question of time" and "next step" what is a diference Since you wrote "only a question of time", you assert that it's inevitable. You know what, I'm lowering the bar for you: Show us how this is a more likely future than other possible trajectories. But be specific about the preparatory steps that Israel has taken so far that will, within a decade, result in industrialized killings of millions. What's the best evidence that you have that Israel has these genocidal ambitions? Who are the people behind the plan? How prepares Israel to hide the evidence? What flanking measures have been taken to create moral cover for the whole society of Israel for their genocidal ambitions? What are the children's TV shows that desensitize the Israeli kids to killing Palestinians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Is there an Israeli equivalent to Farfur the mouse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perun Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 It seems that the majority of you are concentrated only on gas chambers and not on the ghetto. Of course that I don't have official documents, so I can't prove it. Same as you, who can't prove that it will not happen. My comparison is based on previously Israeli activity and similarity of those activities with nazi activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssnake Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Perun said: It seems that the majority of you are concentrated only on gas chambers Well, you brought them up. And you seem to be very much convinced that they exist, or surely will be set up any moment now. 1 hour ago, Perun said: Of course that I don't have official documents, so I can't prove it. I realized that. Which is why I asked you to share with us the dots that lead you to formulating your interesting theory. I would not expect, say, a Jewish lobbyist in 1942 to hand me a copy of the Wannsee meeting minutes to start believing him, as long as there would be other corrobating evidence or at least multiple plausible details that supported his theory. I agree that we shouldn't wait for genocide to be completed before doing something about it. But, in this case, you simply sound like shoveling a truckload of antisemitic crap into an industrial grade ventilator. And since you keep drawing parallels between Nazis and Israel, you seem to be hell bent to dig yourself into an even deeper hole rather than reflect on what you wrote. It's your choice, really. You could simply retract your claim and apologize. Or keep dancing around the subject because, deep down, you just know that Jews are evil. Or, well, give specific examples that form a convincing picture of a reality of which none of the rest of us has had an idea that it existed. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. 2 hours ago, Perun said: Same as you, who can't prove that it will not happen. I thought you were intelligent enough to know that proving a negative is impossible, but we're reaching the argumentative depth of a petulant five year-old here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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