Yama Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 (edited) ...we'll see how 'mega' this will become But I thought that maybe a catchall thread to all Indian naval matters might work. So today, India commissioned Vikrant, its first indigenously built aircraft carrier. This also makes Indian Navy a two-carrier navy - which it has been before, but only brief periods. Now with Vikramaditya hopefully having many service years ahead, and third carrier on the drawing board, might be that the carrier arm becomes a proper, credible force, and not just a curiosity which is available if they're lucky. On that note, a satellite photo of Vikrant and Vikramaditya on same pier. Differences in configuration are obvious. Latter is around 20 metres longer, but displacement-wise, it is only slightly bigger. Not coincidentally, India also adopted a new naval ensign, to "completely dispose with the colonial past". India has been changing naval ensign like they were Pepsi, and actually "non-colonial" ensign was already adopted some 20 years ago, but it was thought a failure and they returned to the old. 2014 ensign: And the new one: Though personally, I think the new one just looks a bit weird, and graphically somewhat lazy design. Edited November 7, 2023 by Yama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futon Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 The inside of the command room had an old look but not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucklucky Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 Who they call to integrate all those Western-Eastern weapons in their ships? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yama Posted September 4, 2022 Author Share Posted September 4, 2022 On 9/3/2022 at 3:39 AM, lucklucky said: Who they call to integrate all those Western-Eastern weapons in their ships? At this point they should have plenty of experience of that. Seems that Israeli systems are the new rage, with Barak-8 becoming the new mainstay in newer vessels, including Vikrant. A new recruitment-ad style video by Indian Navy, focusing on Vikramaditya but showing all Indian carriers. Really gorgeous clips with only slightly too music video-influenced fast cutting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucklucky Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 That is nice video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 Completely dispose of the Imperial past? They have markings on their jets like the RAF, and have R0 numbers on the bridge like the Royal Navy, and wear uniforms patterned after the Royal Navy. Even Australia has gone further away from its Colonial past than India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yama Posted September 5, 2022 Author Share Posted September 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said: Completely dispose of the Imperial past? They have markings on their jets like the RAF, and have R0 numbers on the bridge like the Royal Navy, and wear uniforms patterned after the Royal Navy. Even Australia has gone further away from its Colonial past than India. That's just usual, Finnish military still has plenty of Imperial Russian and Prussian influence in its traditions and heraldry. Bundeswehr is still distinctly German, even though officially Germany has declared its entire history as evil... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucklucky Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 India chooses Rafale for its next carrier beating F18. The most interesting for me is that will be the first non VTOL Western fighter to operate without catapult. https://www.indiatoday.in/opinion-columns/story/why-india-chose-rafale-m-over-fa-18-super-hornet-2406014-2023-07-13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrustMe Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 41 minutes ago, lucklucky said: India chooses Rafale for its next carrier beating F18. The most interesting for me is that will be the first non VTOL Western fighter to operate without catapult. https://www.indiatoday.in/opinion-columns/story/why-india-chose-rafale-m-over-fa-18-super-hornet-2406014-2023-07-13 I'm not sure if the Rafale M would be able to take off a non-catapult carrier without compromising fuel and munitions ordnance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yama Posted July 18, 2023 Author Share Posted July 18, 2023 Supposedly both manufacturers assured that their planes can operate in STOBAR mode. However it might require tuning the engines for hotter core temperatures for more thrust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 On 9/2/2022 at 8:39 PM, lucklucky said: Who they call to integrate all those Western-Eastern weapons in their ships? Do they really use much western tech other than Barak? There are some western aircraft, but presumably that's a little easier to integrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 On 7/18/2023 at 12:24 PM, lucklucky said: India chooses Rafale for its next carrier beating F18. The most interesting for me is that will be the first non VTOL Western fighter to operate without catapult. https://www.indiatoday.in/opinion-columns/story/why-india-chose-rafale-m-over-fa-18-super-hornet-2406014-2023-07-13 The Rafales are probably a better fit for India in terms of size and performance. The F-18s have a very solid avionics fit and a wide variety of integrated weapons, but its a larger aircraft that is more sluggish performance wise. A smaller platform with more A2A performance makes sense for them. Did they ever show any interest in F-35B? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 On 7/18/2023 at 2:01 PM, Yama said: Supposedly both manufacturers assured that their planes can operate in STOBAR mode. However it might require tuning the engines for hotter core temperatures for more thrust. I know F-18s got tested on ski jumps. I don't think it involved any modifications. Presumably Rafale as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucklucky Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 27 minutes ago, Josh said: Do they really use much western tech other than Barak? There are some western aircraft, but presumably that's a little easier to integrate. 76mm Oto Melaras, i think they also want to order 127mm, many radars and CMS , torpedoes, MH-60 Seahawk. Rafale do not fold its wings instead F-18 does. So the new aircraft carrier needs to have its lifts widened. Read the article i posted it says main reasons are: - Air Force already have Rafale - France unofficially allows contrary to Americans to use nuclear weapons in Rafale. - Meteor longer range missiles than American ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 Well most defense decisions are usually more political than practical, and India has long kept the US at arms length. Traditionally the French sell their weapons with less restrictions on future support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrustMe Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 The problem with India is that there glacially slow procurement processes is not fit for purposes. To give you an example the Chinese have designed, produced and fielded the J20 stealth fighter in the same time frame that India has bought the off the shelf French Rafale. It's that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yama Posted July 20, 2023 Author Share Posted July 20, 2023 2 hours ago, lucklucky said: 76mm Oto Melaras, i think they also want to order 127mm, many radars and CMS , torpedoes, MH-60 Seahawk. Rafale do not fold its wings instead F-18 does. So the new aircraft carrier needs to have its lifts widened. That would be near impossible; any way, supposedly both Rafale and Super Hornet fit the lifts, but they had to be set up to correct position (IIRC, Super Hornet at least needed to have its nose lifted up somewhat, as it was too long to fit otherwise). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucklucky Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 (edited) Quote We do, however, know that the Rafales will require significant re-designing of our follow-on carriers. Specifically, this has to do with the size of their aircraft elevators that transport fighters from the runway on deck to the hangars below deck. The current elevators are exactly 10 metres wide — not wide enough to accommodate the Rafale, whose wings cannot be folded, unlike say the MiG-29 or F/A 18 Super Hornet. This means the Rafales can only equip carriers that will be built and are not backwards compatible with older carriers unless significant re-engineering and retrofits are undertaken. https://www.indiatoday.in/opinion-columns/story/why-india-chose-rafale-m-over-fa-18-super-hornet-2406014-2023-07-13 Edited July 20, 2023 by lucklucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yama Posted July 20, 2023 Author Share Posted July 20, 2023 (edited) The way I heard was that during carrier tests, Rafale had to be turned diagonally at the lift so that the wings would fit, and Super Hornet got through in 'nose-up' position, with help of some kind of support under the nosewheel. Weight is also an issue at least for Super Hornet, front lift of Vikramaditya is just 20 tons. Next Indian carrier has not even been ordered yet. According to Boeing, SHornet fits to their existing lifts: "The F/A-18 Super Hornet has been designed and built for carrier operations, and is fully compliant with INS Vikramaditya and INS Vikrant aircraft carrier. F/A-18 will be able to operate on the deck, in the hangar and on the lifts of the Indian Navy’s aircraft carriers." https://www.boeing.co.in/products-and-services/defense-space-and-security/boeing-defense-space-and-security-in-india/fa-18.page Edited July 20, 2023 by Yama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucklucky Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 That seems to be a contradiction when you say about "nose up" , i would not call that fully compliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James1978 Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 We are talking about Boeing here . . . . Waivers and workarounds are the order of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 21 hours ago, Josh said: Well most defense decisions are usually more political than practical, and India has long kept the US at arms length. Traditionally the French sell their weapons with less restrictions on future support. Offsets play a big part, particularly technology transfer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yama Posted July 21, 2023 Author Share Posted July 21, 2023 In India's case, relatively close relationship between Pakistan and US is always somewhat going to limit the extent of Indo-US co-operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucklucky Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 That is in the Cold War past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 On 7/22/2023 at 8:49 PM, lucklucky said: That is in the Cold War past. Well until recently the US did rely on Pakistan for logistical support in Afghanistan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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