sunday Posted September 28, 2022 Posted September 28, 2022 Rationality among the dwellers in the Biden camp went out of the window when they refused to acknowledge the presidential elections were stolen, thus they are behaving like emotional beings, not rational ones. "Anything but Bad Orange Man"
jmsaari Posted September 28, 2022 Author Posted September 28, 2022 26 minutes ago, DKTanker said: While concluding it must have been Russia, his arguments point away from Russia. Russia blowing up its own non-revenue producing pipelines is akin to flogging a dead horse. What's the point? At almost anytime Russia could have opened up the pipelines to satiate Europe's thirst for natural gas and use that thirst to her own advantage. Now that option is closed, gone, blown up. How exactly does Galeotti rationalize that outcome? Answer, he doesn't, because he can't, because it isn't rational. A quick non-exhaustive list : First, he articulates it quite clearly: "The answer is likely to be as a warning. If you want to signal that, if pushed to escalation, you might regard foreign pipelines and other undersea assets as fair game – and the underwater cables that are the arteries of the global internet are the obvious concern here – then a safer option is to hit your own. Ursula von der Leyen has taken time out from explicitly threatening the Italians to implicitly threatening the Russians, warning that any deliberate disruption of European energy infrastructure would be met by the 'strongest possible response'. But it is harder to seriously respond when the infrastructure isn't yours, isn’t in use, and isn’t likely to be used in the future." Second, it should come as no surprise that there are those in the west who react exactly as you do and go find way to blame local political opponents. If there's something consistent in Russian behaviour re:west over last decades, it's promoting this sort of infighting and division. It may not be THE reason but it certainly is one welcome outcome from Putler's perspective. Third, a false flag to make up some sort of excuse for a reaction to the devious western attack on the motherland. Fourth, what Putin's been doing hasn't exactly been strictly limited to rational behaviour up to now.
kokovi Posted September 28, 2022 Posted September 28, 2022 19 hours ago, urbanoid said: Because without Ukraine as either part of Russia or a satellite state there is no Russian empire, because successfully modernised Ukraine would be a threat to ineffective Russian model of... everything, because it would be a blow to Russian 'prestige'. They want to be one of the leading powers in the new multipolar world blah blah blah, they're open about it. Yes, if they simply just had good management they could be rich as fuck just from digging what they have underground and not have to give a shit about pretty much anything, guarded by their nuclear arsenal, but it's not the way they want it to be. Imperial stuff is more important than... basically anything, including half-decent standards of living. And if you listen to some Russian propagandists/stronkers, they do indeed claim that losing this war means the end of Russia, partition of the country, yadda yadda yadda. They either believe that or at least pretend to believe. In fact they probably realize that losing this war will lead not to partition, but to something even more scary to them - irrelevance. Thanks. So basically my fifteen month old son is more intelligent than entire Russia, as he is constantly figuring out what works and what not to make his daily life better.
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 28, 2022 Posted September 28, 2022 17 hours ago, DKTanker said: Yes, well, twice in less than a year the US administration stated as fact it would unequivocally put an end to Nord Stream. Today, when given a chance, the presidential spox declined to deny US involvement with the explosions. Come on. You know as well as anyone here who did it, and it wasnt the Americans. One cant convincingly make the case that Biden lacks balls, and then suddenly and wholly recklessly goes and blows up Germany's primary energy source.
Strannik Posted September 28, 2022 Posted September 28, 2022 Quote Expect the retort: because Putin is not rational 😅 1 hour ago, jmsaari said: Fourth, what Putin's been doing hasn't exactly been strictly limited to rational behaviour up to now. How predictable 😂
Strannik Posted September 28, 2022 Posted September 28, 2022 24 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said: Come on. You know as well as anyone here who did it, and it wasnt the Americans. One cant convincingly make the case that Biden lacks balls, and then suddenly and wholly recklessly goes and blows up Germany's primary energy source. Biden is not a decision maker, he can read the teleprompter on a good day.
sunday Posted September 28, 2022 Posted September 28, 2022 Stuart should be playing the stock exchange with that clairvoyance of him...
rmgill Posted September 28, 2022 Posted September 28, 2022 12 hours ago, BansheeOne said: I have to say the fact that pro-Russian sites lit up overnight all with the same "the Americans dunnit" arguments is the best indication it was Russia. 😁 If the US had done it, would they be silent?
Josh Posted September 28, 2022 Posted September 28, 2022 7 hours ago, bd1 said: there might well be some clauses in rus-german gas contracts that will make cheaper for russia to just blow the pipelines and whistle while looking away, if the pipelines are dead in water anyway Wasn't Gazprom assets in Germany nationalized?
rmgill Posted September 28, 2022 Posted September 28, 2022 1 hour ago, kokovi said: Thanks. So basically my fifteen month old son is more intelligent than entire Russia, as he is constantly figuring out what works and what not to make his daily life better. Positive void coefficient on all nuclear reactors. Thats rational?
rmgill Posted September 28, 2022 Posted September 28, 2022 40 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said: Come on. You know as well as anyone here who did it, and it wasnt the Americans. One cant convincingly make the case that Biden lacks balls, and then suddenly and wholly recklessly goes and blows up Germany's primary energy source. Is that balls or critically foolish? Then why was he bragging that the pipeline could be shut down regardless? Never underestimate Biden's ability to fuck things up. Also, the Obama admin was not exactly smart vis a vis nations like Iran and proliferation.
Strannik Posted September 28, 2022 Posted September 28, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, jmsaari said: A quick non-exhaustive list : First, he articulates it quite clearly: "The answer is likely to be as a warning. If you want to signal that, if pushed to escalation, you might regard foreign pipelines and other undersea assets as fair game – and the underwater cables that are the arteries of the global internet are the obvious concern here – then a safer option is to hit your own. Ursula von der Leyen has taken time out from explicitly threatening the Italians to implicitly threatening the Russians, warning that any deliberate disruption of European energy infrastructure would be met by the 'strongest possible response'. But it is harder to seriously respond when the infrastructure isn't yours, isn’t in use, and isn’t likely to be used in the future." Very weak argument: - loose your own option to start supplying DE, when accommodation with it is reached - so loose the ability to pull it away from the EU camp - the threat is far from explicit - people are guessing as to who did it - so can't be a threat - wouldn't blowing up the Baltis Pipe be a better warning? Quote Second, it should come as no surprise that there are those in the west who react exactly as you do and go find way to blame local political opponents. If there's something consistent in Russian behaviour re:west over last decades, it's promoting this sort of infighting and division. It may not be THE reason but it certainly is one welcome outcome from Putler's perspective. If anything US behaviour is consistent (twice the threat was announced) and logical (qui prodest? - answer: US) Quote Third, a false flag to make up some sort of excuse for a reaction to the devious western attack on the motherland. The beauty of a conspiracy theory is that one can't easily disprove it - congrats! 😅 Quote Fourth, what Putin's been doing hasn't exactly been strictly limited to rational behaviour up to now. The problem with the argument "Putin is irrational" is that is just plain wrong and everybody who followed the events and has a modicum of intelligence and intellectual honesty understands this: His aims and the ways to achieve them (multi-pronged blitz style attack / NO infra shock and awe / no SEAD / no numerical troop superiority) was not irrational according to his understanding of the UA situation. But, because his assumptions were false, his decisions appeared to be irrational - Edited September 28, 2022 by Strannik
rmgill Posted September 28, 2022 Posted September 28, 2022 9 minutes ago, Strannik said: The beauty of a conspiracy theory is that one can't easily disprove it - congrats! 😅 Non effective argument. No matter who blew it up it would require a 'conspiracy'. So just postulating that it was done by party x, y or z is theory. Prove who did it. Disprove who didn't do it. More logical points please, less silly nonsense
Strannik Posted September 28, 2022 Posted September 28, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, rmgill said: Non effective argument. No matter who blew it up it would require a 'conspiracy'. So just postulating that it was done by party x, y or z is theory. Prove who did it. Disprove who didn't do it. More logical points please, less silly nonsense We don't have "proofs". All we have is circumstantial evidence, motives and prior threats (actually more like promises) You choose what to believe Edited September 28, 2022 by Strannik
Strannik Posted September 28, 2022 Posted September 28, 2022 13 minutes ago, rmgill said: More logical points please, less silly nonsense Silly nonsense was Galeotti's claims regurgitated by jmsaari. Then again, one's own bias will affect one's logic.
DKTanker Posted September 28, 2022 Posted September 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said: Come on. You know as well as anyone here who did it, and it wasnt the Americans. One cant convincingly make the case that Biden lacks balls, and then suddenly and wholly recklessly goes and blows up Germany's primary energy source. I don't think I've ever talked about Biden's genitalia. As a matter of fact I don't recall chastising Biden at all for lack of warmongering. That's your bailiwick. Second, I'm just requoting the Biden administration's position from earlier this year. If you have a problem with it, if you have a problem with them promising the world that the United States would destroy Germany's primary energy source, take it up with them. Oops, a little late now, isn't it?
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 28, 2022 Posted September 28, 2022 54 minutes ago, rmgill said: Is that balls or critically foolish? Then why was he bragging that the pipeline could be shut down regardless? Never underestimate Biden's ability to fuck things up. Also, the Obama admin was not exactly smart vis a vis nations like Iran and proliferation. So suddenly sleepy joe, the guy who bailed out of Afghanistan, who denied giving Ukraine equipment that would win the war in a week, blows up a German pipeline. Does this man, who seems incapable of remembering people have died months ago, does he covertly snort coke in the bathroom like his son and suddenly transform into SuperBiden and, with a wargasmic desire for excessive violence, decide to blow shit up because reasons? Decided to shut down a pipeline the Russians had already shut down? Two of them? For absolutely no reason whatsoever? Or is it, in fact, more likely Putin, whose ships were actually seen in the viscinity of the pipeline before it blew up, blew up a no longer useful asset as a warning to the Norwegians and Poles, who had just opened a brand new gas pipeline less than 25 kilometres away? https://energy.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/oil-and-gas/norwegian-gas-pipeline-opens-in-poland-after-russian-cut/94493019?redirect=1 Gee, that's a tough one. Can I phone a friend and confer?
Strannik Posted September 28, 2022 Posted September 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said: Come on. You know as well as anyone here who did it, and it wasnt the Americans. One cant convincingly make the case that Biden lacks balls, and then suddenly and wholly recklessly goes and blows up Germany's primary energy source.
Colin Posted September 28, 2022 Posted September 28, 2022 Not that Biden is really making any decisions, he is just a stumbling puppet at this point in his life.
Colin Posted September 28, 2022 Posted September 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Strannik said: As if fixing a underwater pipe has never been done before.....
Strannik Posted September 28, 2022 Posted September 28, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, Colin said: Not that Biden is really making any decisions, he is just a stumbling puppet at this point in his life. That's Stuart's last line of argument defence - he couldn't have done it, just look at him 😅 Edited September 28, 2022 by Strannik
bojan Posted September 28, 2022 Posted September 28, 2022 4 hours ago, Strannik said: AFAIK those with dual citizenship.
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