Green Energy, and the German Grid, from: Kiev Is Burning

[urbanoid]

1 minute ago, Strannik said:

They obviously lack the simple cause-and-effect analysis skills.  When Polish economy will stop getting orders from Germany, because their factories will close down due to suddenly being not competitive, perhaps then.

Yes, there may be some effect possibly, some temporary, some permanent. In the end everyone will adjust. Does Russia do what it currently does based on economic calculation? Don't worry about Western economies, worry about yours - it was never too impressive to begin with, now it's going to shrink even more for some time to come, when it still haven't even bounced back to pre-2014 level. 

[Strannik]

Considering demonstrations in Germany during last couple of weeks with the demands to open the NS2 and who wanted to shutdown NS2 all along, I think it's clear who made sure NS1-2 will stay shut 😂

 

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Strannik

[Strannik]

12 minutes ago, Strannik said:

Considering demonstrations in Germany during last couple of weeks with the demands to open the NS2 and who wanted to shutdown NS2 all along, I think it's clear who made sure NS1-2 will stay shut 😂

 

 

Note the location of the "leak"

 

 

[Colin]

1 hour ago, Huba said:

Sure, it won't have a direct impact on the situation. But given that both lines broke at the same time, it's hard to believe in an accident I think. I really won't be surprised if they find a dead diver with UA passport and Azov tattoo on the site

Generally even very large anchors will pull the pipe a certain distance before breaking it, unless a very larage fishing boat managed to nail both pipes with its paravane.

[Colin]

1 hour ago, Strannik said:

Note the location of the "leak"

 

 

It won't take long to determine the cause, outward bent metal or cracking is due to construction, inward hole , cut or dent is an external cause. The have to wait till the NG in the pipe equalises with the water pressure and the cloud to dissipate on the surface to dive the site. 

[Huba]

It looks like both Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines were somehow simultaneously damaged, there are gas leaks in the pipelines around Bornholm. It's hard to believe in explanation other than sabotage.

I posted it in the main Ukraine thread in Military Current Events, but perhaps it's better continued here. So, any ideas how one would go about fixing an underwater pipeline like that? I imagine leaving in flooded with seawater for prolonged period of time would destroy it permanently. @Colin IIRC you have some practical experience with underwater drilling, could you perhaps weigh in on this?

[Roman Alymov]

[sunday]

10 minutes ago, Roman Alymov said:

Attention should be paid to developments of those incidents. Currently they look as random as the 9-11 attacks.

[sunday]

Yeah, but a submarine pipeline needs more than a home build IED. Perhaps the easiest one is using a pipeline pig, but that requires cooperation by the owner/operator, or breaching their security.

Then there are submarines, but that would be too close to an act of war. 

[Roman Alymov]

Just now, sunday said:

Yeah, but a submarine pipeline needs more than a home build IED. Perhaps the easiest one is using a pipeline pig, but that requires cooperation by the owner/operator, or breaching their security.

Then there are submarines, but that would be too close to an act of war. 

In this region depth is about 20m as far as i remember, so reacreation diving gear is enough to reach it - or just fishing boat with ancor....

[sunday]

12 minutes ago, Roman Alymov said:

In this region depth is about 20m as far as i remember, so reacreation diving gear is enough to reach it - or just fishing boat with ancor....

Heck, some kind of toy drone submarine would have been enough, and a conventional sub would be in difficulties. The home build IED could not be dismissed, then.

The probabilities of three anchor incidents in so brief of a time period do not seem very high.

Edited to add: There is this, also.

Edited to add: And this.

Quote

Apparent Sabotage Disables Nord Stream 1 and 2, Cutting Off All Direct Gas Supply to Germany from Russia

Anonymous German officials appear to acknowledge the strong possibility of American or NATO involvement

Yesterday evening, pressure in the undersea Nord Stream 2 pipeline suddenly collapsed, and gas could be seen bubbling to the surface of the Baltic Sea near the Danish island of Bornholm. Shortly afterwards, reports came of a total collapse in the pressure of our other major undersea pipeline connection to Russia, Nord Stream 1, indicating a further rupture.

Government officials assume that the damage is intentional, and the result of an attack by foreign forces:

"Due to the timing, the fact that three separate pipelines were affected1, and the severe pressure losses in Nord Stream 1, officials expect the worst. “We can no longer imagine any scenario other than a targeted attack,” said a person privy to the assessment by the federal government and federal authorities. They added: “Everything speaks against a coincidence.”

Such an attack on the seabed would be anything but trivial; it would have to be carried out with special forces – for example, by navy divers or a submarine, people informed of initial assessments said.

With regard to responsibility for the alleged attacks, two possibilities are being discussed. First, according to initial speculation, Ukrainian or Ukrainian-affiliated forces could be responsible. With the temporary shutdown of the Nord Stream pipelines, gas deliveries from Russia to Germany and Central Europe would only be possible via the Yamal pipelinje running through Poland or the Ukrainian pipeline network."

The piece that I’ve bolded is of course a lightly disguised reference to the United States or NATO. This should surprise nobody: President Biden said in early February that in the event of a Russian invasion of Ukraine, “there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2, we will bring an end to it.” It’s well within the realm of possibility that such an attack would’ve been carried out with the tacit approval (or even upon the request) of the Scholz government, to relieve them of political pressure to open Nord Stream 2 or seek terms for a restoration of supply to Nord Stream 1 as the economy continues to circle the drain. The Greens are in government here, and Green-adjacent journalists have gone so far as to demand the dismantling of the pipelines to hurt Putin, so this too is far from crazy.

The second scenario investigators are contemplating, according to the linked Tagesspiegel report, is of course a “‘false flag’ operation by Russia,” carried out to “drive up the price of gas,” “exacerbate the European energy crisis” and “fuel additional uncertainty.” Russia will surely be blamed for the attack as soon as it is confirmed, I have no doubt of that.

The pipeline attacks come as a few prominent German politicians have demanded the opening of Nord Stream 2, and the subject has attracted a growing protest movement. Neither pipeline was currently transporting gas; Gazprom cut off supply to Nord Stream 1 at the end of August, citing maintenance issues exacerbated by EU sanctions, while the Scholz government refused to certify Nord Stream 2 following its completion in November 2021.

UPDATES: Gonzalo Lira argues that the Americans have declared war on Europe; Noah Carl draws attention to an older piece he wrote on the “Nord Stream 2 theory” of the Ukraine war; hints of a possible method and an earlier, aborted attack on the pipeline are found in these stories about an underwater drone armed with explosives recovered near the pipeline construction site in 2015. Two Nord Stream 1 leaks have now been identified; like the Nord Stream 2 rupture, they’re near Bornholm.

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by sunday

[Markus Becker]

1 hour ago, sunday said:

Heck, some kind of toy drone submarine would have been enough, and a conventional sub would be in difficulties. The home build IED could not be dismissed, then.

The probabilities of three anchor incidents in so brief of a time period do not seem very high.

Edited to add: There is this, also.

Edited to add: And this.

 

 

Someone sabotaged a pipeline that the Russians had already shut down?! I got an idea who might do that and it ain't the Poles! 

[Stuart Galbraith]

[BansheeOne]

I'm taking the Nord Stream shenanigans to the German energy thread in the FFZ to find it back better. And spare MODERATOR (pbuh) the work of splitting off more posts. 😁

ETA: I see Huba already did.

Edited September 27, 2022 by BansheeOne

[BansheeOne]

Quote

Mysterious leaks hit Nord Stream pipelines linking Russia and Germany

1h ago

Both Nord Stream natural gas pipelines from Russia to Germany have developed apparent leaks within hours of one another. The cause is unknown, but some sources have hinted at sabotage.

Danish and Swedish officials on Tuesday said two leaks had been identified on the Nord Stream 1 Russia-Europe gas pipeline in the Baltic Sea.

The news came only hours after a similar development on its twin pipeline Nord Stream 2. Both conduits have become flashpoints in the escalating energy war that has sent gas prices rocketing since Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

What do we know so far?

Officials said a pressure drop was detected in the Nord Stream 1 undersea gas channel soon after a similar fall was detected in its sister pipeline Nord Stream 2. 

Both of Nord Stream 1's two lines are affected, while one of Nord Stream 2's pipelines showed a drop in pressure.

"We currently do not know the reason for the drop in pressure," it said.

What's the significance?

Both of the pipelines were built to carry natural gas from Russia to Europe, although the Nord Stream 2 pipeline was never activated. 

German officials have not yet provided any information on the possible cause of the damage. However, Berlin's Tagesspiegel newspaper cited German security circles saying that sabotage was strongly suspected. "Our imagination no longer allows for a scenario in which this is not a targeted attack," the newspaper quoted its source as saying.

Denmark's Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said it was "hard to imagine" that the leaks were "accidental."

Speaking to Danish media while on a visit to Poland, Frederiksen said: "It's an unusual situation, to have three leaks a distance from each other. That's why it's hard to imagine that it's accidental."

Separately, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Russia was "extremely concerned" by the reports of damage and that no option, including sabotage, can be excluded at the moment.

While neither pipeline has been delivering supplies to Europe, both have still been filled with gas. 

[...]

https://m.dw.com/en/mysterious-leaks-hit-nord-stream-pipelines-linking-russia-and-germany/a-63251217

[glenn239]

Looks to me like the Russian navy might be training on how to cut gas pipelines on the seafloor.   Gee, I wonder why they'd be doing that? 

[Der Zeitgeist]

From the seismic data, it's pretty clear that these aren't just "leaks", but explosions.

https://www.volcanodiscovery.com/earthquakes/quake-info/7054550/mag2quake-Sep-26-2022-Sweden-BALTIC-SEA.html

[Der Zeitgeist]

And here is how it looks on the surface.

 

[urbanoid]

Uh huh, I think on the same day or the day before Norway called to be vigilant, as there were sightings of unidentified drones in proximity to their offshore oil and gas platforms.

[BansheeOne]

As noted on the Kiev thread, it's hard to nail down a chief suspect since you can argue benefits for about any concerned party right now. I was going to exclude Russia when I heard that Nord Stream 2 was hit, too, as they would want nothing more right now than Germany and Western Europe to come crawling on their knees and beg to resume deliveries in return for fulfilling any demands. However, seems that only one of the double line blew, so a backdoor remains for such a case; and the incident is likely to drive prices on the jittery gas market up again after dropping for the last few weeks.

I'm sorta ruling out the US because with the Kearsarge ABG leaving the Baltic just last Thursday, it would be far to obvious to give conspiracy nuts the idea that the Evil Americans left some time-fused parting gift. 😁

The precise locations of the ruptures seem to be just outside Danish territorial waters, which is relevant regarding any thought of Article 5 NATO Treaty.

[Huba]

I'd love to think it was Germany itself, so now you could finally stop worrying and start to love sending Leopards to UA   I doubt it was us, too much risk for too little gain, but I have to admit that reactions are rather cheerful:

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Huba

[glenn239]

Maybe the Israeli space lasers that started the forest fires in California did it? 

Or wait, here's another idea, perhaps slightly more plausible.  Maybe a Russian submarine with trained divers did it.  The mission being to penetrate most the way across the Baltic Sea undetected, sabotage multiple objects on the seafloor, then withdraw.

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by glenn239

[Der Zeitgeist]

I think it's pretty obvious the Russians did it, because, let's be honest, who else would be ruthless enough? 😄

As for Poland, their security review of this new baltic pipeline (inaugurated today!) will be very interesting.

 

[BansheeOne]

8 minutes ago, Huba said:

I'd love to think it was Germany itself, so now you could finally stop worrying and start to love sending Leopards to UA

Off the cuff I'd say German agencies are much too staid and rule-abiding, but some (albeit long-ago) precedent does in fact exist in the form of the Celle Hole. The purpose would presumably be not so much enabling delivery of tanks to Ukraine though rather than shutting up all the demands from the left and right fringe for dropping the sanctions against Russia in exchange for them opening the lines. 😉

[Der Zeitgeist]

Look who just turned on their AIS. 😏