Sardaukar Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 Maybe this time they manage to find some more artillery shells for UKR (allegedly Czechs have found at least 800 000 available from "free market", amusingly also allegedly from "allies of Russia" ) https://www.defmin.fi/en/topical/press_releases_and_news/ukraine_defense_contact_group_to_meet_at_ramstein_air_base.14248.news#30bda23e Ukraine Defense Contact Group to meet at Ramstein Air Base The next meeting of the Ukraine Defense Contact Group (UDCG, also known as the Ramstein Group) will take place on Tuesday 19 March 2024 at Ramstein Air Base in Germany. The UDCG coordinates materiel assistance to Ukraine. Permanent Secretary Esa Pulkkinen from the Ministry of Defence will represent Finland. The participants will address the situation in Ukraine and coordinate the military support to be provided to Ukraine. The Permanent Secretary will be accompanied by Major General Kari Nisula, Deputy Chief of Staff Operations at Defence Command. The meeting will be hosted by United States Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin together with General Charles Q. Brown, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The Ukraine Defense Contact Group is a coalition of over 50 countries that coordinates the delivery of materiel assistance to Ukraine under the leadership of the United States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Becker Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 2 hours ago, Sardaukar said: Maybe this time they manage to find some more artillery shells for UKR (allegedly Czechs have found at least 800 000 available from "free market", amusingly also allegedly from "allies of Russia" ) https://www.defmin.fi/en/topical/press_releases_and_news/ukraine_defense_contact_group_to_meet_at_ramstein_air_base.14248.news#30bda23e Ukraine Defense Contact Group to meet at Ramstein Air Base The next meeting of the Ukraine Defense Contact Group (UDCG, also known as the Ramstein Group) will take place on Tuesday 19 March 2024 at Ramstein Air Base in Germany. The UDCG coordinates materiel assistance to Ukraine. Permanent Secretary Esa Pulkkinen from the Ministry of Defence will represent Finland. The participants will address the situation in Ukraine and coordinate the military support to be provided to Ukraine. The Permanent Secretary will be accompanied by Major General Kari Nisula, Deputy Chief of Staff Operations at Defence Command. The meeting will be hosted by United States Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin together with General Charles Q. Brown, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The Ukraine Defense Contact Group is a coalition of over 50 countries that coordinates the delivery of materiel assistance to Ukraine under the leadership of the United States. An alliance with Russia doesn't rule out a fondness of $$$! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 (edited) 3 hours ago, Sardaukar said: ...allegedly Czechs have found at least 800 000 available from "free market"... No, they have found 800k that in theory could be sold to Ukraine by the countries that have previously sold at least some equipment that has ended in Ukraine. So it hinges on the point that some countries will basically sell their entire inventory to Ukraine... Get a problem with that sort of thinking? Also "European production estimates" are based on some very, very optimistic production estimates, eg. they were told by Bratstvo Travnik that they could produce 150k shells per year, problem being that only line they have is old one from Yugoslavia and in back in the '80s with much more workers and equipment functional (some was lost in war) it has produced 75-100k shells per year. Wonder how many other such cases are included in European production capabilities. Edited March 19 by bojan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistral Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 13 minutes ago, bojan said: No, they have found 800k that in theory could be sold to Ukraine by the countries that have previously sold at least some equipment that has ended in Ukraine. So it hinges on the point that some countries will basically sell their entire inventory to Ukraine... Get a problem with that sort of thinking? Also "European production estimates" are based on some very, very optimistic production estimates, eg. they were told by Bratstvo Travnik that they could produce 150k shells per year, problem being that only line they have is old one from Yugoslavia and in back in the '80s with much more workers and equipment functional (some was lost in war) it has produced 75-100k shells per year. Wonder how many other such cases are included in European production capabilities. Yep, Greece is included in the numbers but the molding press is non functional for at least 15 years. Peace dividents are expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 (edited) 16 hours ago, bojan said: No, they have found 800k that in theory could be sold to Ukraine by the countries that have previously sold at least some equipment that has ended in Ukraine. So it hinges on the point that some countries will basically sell their entire inventory to Ukraine... Get a problem with that sort of thinking? Also "European production estimates" are based on some very, very optimistic production estimates, eg. they were told by Bratstvo Travnik that they could produce 150k shells per year, problem being that only line they have is old one from Yugoslavia and in back in the '80s with much more workers and equipment functional (some was lost in war) it has produced 75-100k shells per year. Wonder how many other such cases are included in European production capabilities. No longer a theory. While it's Kyiv Independent, funds have been allocated in meeting in Ramstein. https://kyivindependent.com/finland-pledges-36-million-to-czech-led-shell-initiative-for-ukraine/ Finland joined a Czech-led initiative to provide Ukraine with hundreds of thousands of artillery shells, pledging 30 million euros ($35.6 million) to the effort, Finnish Defense Minister Antti Hakkanen announced on March 19. Czech President Petr Pavel said in February that Prague had identified 500,000 155 mm shells and 300,000 122 mm shells outside of Europe that could be bought and sent to Ukraine after the necessary funds were allocated to the initiative. Edited March 20 by Sardaukar typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 8 hours ago, Sardaukar said: No longer a theory. ... Czech President Petr Pavel said in February that Prague had identified 500,000 155 mm shells and 300,000 122 mm shells outside of Europe that could be bought and sent to Ukraine after the necessary funds were allocated to the initiative. ... Could. Not will. Based on fact that countries would sell their entire inventories. How likely is that any country would be that stupid? Hence total number, just as with production estimates is highly likely to be wishful thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 Deal done. Oh you weak heart feeling for Russkies. On other news: https://www.patriagroup.com/newsroom/news/2024/sweden-purchases-over-300-armoured-vehicles-from-patria This is the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ink Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 32 minutes ago, Sardaukar said: Deal done. Really? The news I saw was that the Czech initiative had secured 300k shells and was hoping to secure more. Note also that "secured" here probably means an agreement in principle, likely pending inspection of said stocks, negotiation of quantities and prices, and only then actual purchase agreements. I could be wrong but that's what it sounds like to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 3 minutes ago, ink said: Really? The news I saw was that the Czech initiative had secured 300k shells and was hoping to secure more. Note also that "secured" here probably means an agreement in principle, likely pending inspection of said stocks, negotiation of quantities and prices, and only then actual purchase agreements. I could be wrong but that's what it sounds like to me. Money is in. It's mind over matter. I don't mind, thus your country does not matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ink Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 3 minutes ago, Sardaukar said: Money is in. It's mind over matter. I don't mind, thus your country does not matter. Hard to have a reasonable discussion, I must admit, with someone who comes across as drunk during daylight hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sardaukar said: ...Oh you weak heart feeling for Russkies.... Ah, yes, accusations of sympathies of Russia toward anyone disagreeing with you and arguing based on facts, not wishful thinking. Like Stuart, if you were born in Russia you would have been a perfect Putinoid, you share same "you are either 100% with us or against us" herd mentality with them. 44 minutes ago, ink said: Really? The news I saw was that the Czech initiative had secured 300k shells* and was hoping to secure more. Note also that "secured" here probably means an agreement in principle, likely pending inspection of said stocks, negotiation of quantities and prices, and only then actual purchase agreements. I could be wrong but that's what it sounds like to me. It is pretty much what it is. But it is sort of pointless pointing that as he is obviously letting his hatreds blind him to any facts that might contradict his view. *There are also such interesting things such as how many 122mm shells, and more critically propellant charges from "insert country in Africa" are in good enough condition to be fired, even as wartime emergency? Edited March 20 by bojan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 14 minutes ago, bojan said: Ah, yes, accusations of sympathies of Russia toward anyone disagreeing with you and arguing based on facts, not wishful thinking. Like Stuart, if you were born in Russia you would have been a perfect Putinoid, you share same "you are either 100% with us or against us" herd mentality with them. It is pretty much what it is. But it is sort of pointless pointing that as he is obviously letting his hatreds blind him to any facts that might contradict his view. *There are also such interesting things such as how many 122mm shells from "insert country in Africa" are in good enough condition to be fired, even in wartime emergency? Oh no, no, no, you arent going to put me in your favoured shoebox sunshine. Just because I hate loathe and despise the security elite that took over Russia, dont pretend for one moment I was fated to be anit Russian. My family are Socialists. I should, all thing being equal, be looking at things from the Russian perspective, like a good little Corbynista. Unlike others, I prefer to look at the reality of a thing before making up my mind on it. Once again, you have to bring personalities into it. I seemingly disagree with pretty much everything you stand for, but I think no less of you for it. I cant even bring myself to dislike Roman, even though increasingly he behaves like a frontman for Russian state media. His country right or wrong I guess. I share no view that people have to be with us or against us. Have you heard me railing against the evils of India or Austria? No. I have no problem with neutrality. I DO find it telling that two of the longest estabilished neutralities in Europe have thrown in their lot with NATO. I suppose THATS my fault as well, is it? Have we got that clear? Im so very glad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 (edited) Your posting history, especially looking for anything gruesome, as long as it fits your narrative and posting every loathsome lie (mobile crematoria, "mobik cube" etc) tell totally different story. Decent people don't post such things, and smart non-decent people don't post that w/o double checking". Internet remembers. As for "socialist", they are also perfectly capable of hate and low levels of human behavior. Milosevic also claimed to be socialist. Edited March 20 by bojan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 You know what Bojan, believe what you a re going to believe. I will say this, I hold no personal animosity to even the more blunt and objectional posters on this site. You want to make everyone that disagrees with you a personal enemy, soon you wont have anyone to post with. But no, that doestn mean you have the right to post fabrications and lies about what I believe. If you want to know what I believe, ask me. Im perfectly forthright about it. Foremost thing I believe is, I only hate the individuals that crush freedom. I dont hate Russians, or any nation come to that. I dont even hate your dumb ass, though you seem hell sent to cause as much mischief as you can. Im not your enemy. Im not anyones enemy, and you can believe that or shove it, because frankly I really dont give a toss what you think at this point. Go find another Bete Noire, you have become boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 2 hours ago, ink said: Hard to have a reasonable discussion, I must admit, with someone who comes across as drunk during daylight hours. Really? Your country does not matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ink Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 2 minutes ago, Sardaukar said: Really? Your country does not matter. 😂 How can it? It doesn't even exist anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 Fact is, some accept chemical warfare in Salisbury. Some accept Russian atrocities in Ukraine. And being told about it, too fookin bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 1 minute ago, ink said: 😂 How can it? It doesn't even exist anymore. You guys (all around everyone) made it pretty nasty separation. I did live for a while in Belgrade and it's very nice place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ink Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 1 minute ago, Sardaukar said: Fact is, some accept chemical warfare in Salisbury. Some accept Russian atrocities in Ukraine. And being told about it, too fookin bad. I'll tell you what, you're barking up the wrong tree. But that happens. No harm done. However, I do like precision of language - so, no, not "chemical warfare". At best, a chemical assassination. Rest of it? Fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ink Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 Just now, Sardaukar said: You guys (all around everyone) made it pretty nasty separation. Yes indeed. Was terrible having family on different sides of ethnic divides back then. Just now, Sardaukar said: I did live for a while in Belgrade and it's very nice place. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 9 minutes ago, ink said: I'll tell you what, you're barking up the wrong tree. But that happens. No harm done. However, I do like precision of language - so, no, not "chemical warfare". At best, a chemical assassination. Rest of it? Fine. Chemical assasination IS chemical warfare. No offence personally, but it is. It did kill and hurt quite a few people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 And it all has exactly what to do with 800k shells wishful thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 7 minutes ago, Sardaukar said: Chemical assasination IS chemical warfare. No offence personally, but it is. It did kill and hurt quite a few people. I think so too. Imagine if we had done that in Russia, how they would have shit a brick about it. He would be banging on about a nuclear strike again im sure. 18 minutes ago, ink said: I'll tell you what, you're barking up the wrong tree. But that happens. No harm done. However, I do like precision of language - so, no, not "chemical warfare". At best, a chemical assassination. Rest of it? Fine. No, it was too profligerate to be anything but a chemical attack. Maybe they were so clueless they didnt understand that, but they had no excuse for not understanding radiation, such as they employed against Litvinenko. It was a means of intimidation, and clearly intended as such. It wasnt a targeted assasination attempt, it was terrorism, on both occasions. Nobody else would have tolerated it, but we did, because we wanted Russian money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 Maybe we should start to smear peoples' doorknobs with chemical warfare stuff in Moscow. You know, Quid pro quo. Not that we'd know whose doorknobs...because people are falling from windows before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ink Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 33 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said: I think so too. Imagine if we had done that in Russia, how they would have shit a brick about it. He would be banging on about a nuclear strike again im sure. No, it was too profligerate to be anything but a chemical attack. Maybe they were so clueless they didnt understand that, but they had no excuse for not understanding radiation, such as they employed against Litvinenko. It was a means of intimidation, and clearly intended as such. It wasnt a targeted assasination attempt, it was terrorism, on both occasions. Nobody else would have tolerated it, but we did, because we wanted Russian money. Fine. Let's call it state sponsored terrorism then. But that's still not chemical warfare. Words have to mean something otherwise what's the point of anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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