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UK agrees mutual security deals with Finland and Sweden


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On 10/2/2023 at 3:19 AM, Yama said:

Conversely Finnish word for Sweden is 'Ruotsi' which is of same root as 'Rus'.

That is indication of Slavic tribal unions came into contact with population of what is now Finland well before this unions have invited Scandinavian (most probably Swedish) dukes as military chiefs/administrators to get rid of tribal problems - and got the name of Rus' after them.

    By the way Viking popular movement in modern Russia 

 

Edited by Roman Alymov
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9 minutes ago, Roman Alymov said:

That is indication of Slavic tribal unions came into contact with population of what is now Finland well before this unions have invited Scandinavian (most probably Swedish) dukes as military chiefs/administrators to get rid of tribal problems - and got the name of Rus' after them.

    By the way Viking popular movement in modern Russia 

 

This is totally offtopic but imo interesting itself. What is now called Finland has had different tribes very long time and have had some contact "outside" world even Roman era (there is Roman text that most likely describe tribes living current Finland area). Vikings fought and trade with finnish tribes constantly. As did Novrogod. Swedish crusades at 1150 started (slowly) process of forming different tribes living in Finland to merge as one (basically just conquer all under rule of one). There still are traces of those tribes as in different finnish dialects.

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9 minutes ago, MiGG0 said:

This is totally offtopic but imo interesting itself. What is now called Finland has had different tribes very long time and have had some contact "outside" world even Roman era (there is Roman text that most likely describe tribes living current Finland area). Vikings fought and trade with finnish tribes constantly. As did Novrogod.

The problem is Novgorod (literally "New town" or "New fortress") is relatively late both as city and as administrative/trade entity. Probably you mean some Slavic-Balt-FinnoUgric tribal unions that were allredy established in this placea st that time (and who have invited Vikings as administrators after defeating them as invaders).

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6 minutes ago, Roman Alymov said:

The problem is Novgorod (literally "New town" or "New fortress") is relatively late both as city and as administrative/trade entity. Probably you mean some Slavic-Balt-FinnoUgric tribal unions that were allredy established in this placea st that time (and who have invited Vikings as administrators after defeating them as invaders).

I mean both. Even in time of Novgorod only very little part of current Finland was part of Sweden.

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https://www.defmin.fi/en/topical/press_releases_and_news/fifth_round_of_negotiations_for_defence_cooperation_agreement_between_finland_and_united_states_concluded.13858.news#30bda23e

The text of the agreement will be final only upon signature. The agreement will become a public document once it is signed. Its entry into force is subject to approval by Parliament.

The United States is one of Finland’s most important allies, and concluding the Defence Cooperation Agreement is one of the objectives laid down in the Programme of Prime Minister Petteri Orpo’s Government. The aim of the DCA is to clarify the framework for cooperation with an important ally and to allow the parties to deepen their cooperation in all security situations. In this way, the DCA will strengthen Finland’s security also as a member of NATO.

 

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https://yle.fi/a/74-20064705

Finnish networking firm Nokia has announced plans to acquire the US-based Fenix Group, a company specialising in defence sector communications tech.

Nokia signed an acquisition agreement with Fenix Group, it said in a press release issued on Tuesday.

Privately held, the Fenix Group markets tactical communications products, as well as wireless, augmented reality-enabled battlefield robot technologies, according to the company.

 

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https://news.yahoo.com/finland-double-artillery-shell-production-143343327.html

(Bloomberg) -- Finland will more than double the production of heavy ammunition to improve its ability to defend itself as well as to ensure long-term support to Ukraine.

....

Finland, which has the largest artillery in Western Europe, will also become one of the largest producers of heavy ammunition in Europe, according to Finland’s Defense Minister Antti Hakkanen.

Arty ammunition production has already been increased significantly, now it'll be more than doubled. 

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1 hour ago, Ssnake said:

Doubled to what?

Obviously classified.

But there is hint in words: will also become one of the largest producers of heavy ammunition in Europe.

https://www.defense-aerospace.com/europes-155mm-ammo-stocks-where-they-should-be-and-how-to-get-there/ 

probably gives some hints. If numbers like 120 million euros are any indication, that'd mean approx. additional 40 000 rounds. That can be compared to Rheinmetall 142 million € supply of 155mm to UKR: https://www.rheinmetall.com/en/media/news-watch/news/2023/12/2023-12-04-rheinmetall-wins-artillery-ammunition-order-for-ukraine

Edit: That increase  does not include FDF additional 35m € purchase of BONUS Mk. II rounds from Nexter.

Edited by Sardaukar
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Someone overplayed his hand, badly.

Quote

Orbán backs Sweden’s NATO bid in sudden U-turn

NATO chief says Hungarian leader showed ‘clear support’ for Stockholm, just a day after Orbán floated ‘negotiations.’

BY STUART LAU

JANUARY 24, 2024 3:43 PM CET

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán, the last remaining holdout in Sweden's bid to join NATO, now says he supports its application and vows that Hungary's parliament will say yes "at the first possible opportunity."

Orbán's remark, made during a call today with NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg, comes a day after he asked his Swedish counterpart to first fly to Hungary for negotiations on NATO membership, only to be snubbed by the Swedish government.

Hungary also broke a promise not to become the last to ratify Sweden's bid, when the Turkish parliament approved Stockholm's membership status late Tuesday, some 20 months after Stockholm submitted the application when Russia's war against Ukraine upended the Scandinavian country's centuries-old stance of neutrality.

"I reaffirmed that the Hungarian government supports the NATO-membership of Sweden," Orbán tweeted. "I also stressed that we will continue to urge the Hungarian National Assembly to vote in favor of Sweden’s accession and conclude the ratification at the first possible opportunity."

Referring to the "good call" with Orbán, Stoltenberg said: "I welcome the clear support of the Prime Minister and his government for Sweden's NATO membership. I look forward to the ratification as soon as parliament reconvenes."

The Hungarian parliament is expected to reconvene in mid-February.

https://www.politico.eu/article/in-a-u-turn-orban-now-says-he-backs-swedens-nato-bid/

That's even funnier than his recent "Ukraine is too corrupt to join the EU, but if you give me ten billion Euro I won't block their accession" gig. 😄

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1 hour ago, Sardaukar said:

Orban is amusing...but even more amusing is Slovakia's Fico...

They are acting on behalf of their voters and in their interests (or in what they see as their interests) - isn't ot what democracy is for?

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NEW: - Biden administration wrote to members of Congress on Wednesday urging approval of a $20 billion sale of Lockheed Martin LMT.N F-16 aircraft and modernization kits to Turkey, three sources familiar with the letter told Reuters.

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On 1/25/2024 at 5:23 PM, Roman Alymov said:

They are acting on behalf of their voters and in their interests (or in what they see as their interests) - isn't ot what democracy is for?

Actually they're acting in their own interest by telling their voters that what they do is good for them. Which of course is also a kind of democracy if the voters believe it, in a top-down way. 😋

On that F-16 sale:

Quote

US approves sale of F-16 warplanes to Turkey

2 hours ago

Washington has approved a $23 billion deal to sell F-16 warplanes to Turkey ending months of negotiations. The sale comes after Turkey approved Sweden's NATO accession bid.

The United States on Friday finalized the $23 billion sale of F-16 fighter jets to Turkey, after Ankara ratified NATO membership for Sweden, the State Department said.

Turkey will receive 40 new F-16s and upgrades to 79 of the jets in its existing fleet, the State Department said in a press release.

As part of the US law, the State Department notified Congress of the arms deal, as well as a separate $8.6 billion (€7.9 billion) sale of 40 F-35 aircraft to Greece — Turkey's neighbor with which it shares a long and often tense history.

Why Turkey wants more F-16s

Bringing an end to a monthslong political tug-of-war, Turkish lawmakers voted on Tuesday to support Sweden's accession to the NATO military alliance.

The decision was finally sealed on Thursday evening with the publication of the so-called accession protocols in the Turkish Official Gazette.

NATO member Hungary still needs to give its approval for Sweden's bid to finally go through.

Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan had linked his country's approval to fighter jet deliveries from the US, among other conditions.

[...]

While the US government does not need lawmakers' approval to go ahead with the sale, Congress does have the power to block it.

The chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Democrat Ben Cardin, said on Friday that he would permit the F-16 sale to Turkey but that it was "not a decision I came to lightly."

"My approval of Turkey's request to purchase F-16 aircrafts has been contingent on Turkish approval of Sweden's NATO membership," Cardin said.

Cardin pointed to other issues that gave him cause for concern, including Turkey's human rights record, its lacking cooperation in holding Russia accountable for its invasion of Ukraine and its involvement in tensions in the Middle East.

[...]

https://www.dw.com/en/us-approves-sale-of-f-16-warplanes-to-turkey/a-68100065

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Conflicting information:

President Joe Biden has called upon elected lawmakers in Congress to approve a request by Turkey to purchase 40 of the latest F-16V fighters 

While the sale will still require congressional sign-off, Biden’s support is the first positive sign for the deal’s prospects in months, if not years.

https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing/biden-asks-congress-to-approve-f-16-sale-to-turkey/156643.article

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4 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

And doubtless congress will try to block it, because anything Biden wants to do is a bad idea. It almost writes itself.

Not sure. The wannabe Sultan is certainly unpopular across party lines and for good reasons. 

Sufficiently to derail the entire deal or parts of it. Maybe parts. 

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It will go through so long as Trump does not stop it, and quite honestly Trump is a fan despotic strong men in general and "Just The Tayyip" in particular.

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13 hours ago, Josh said:

It will go through so long as Trump does not stop it, and quite honestly Trump is a fan despotic strong men in general and "Just The Tayyip" in particular.

When they placed the order, a Turkish lira was 8 to the dollar, now it’s 31 to the dollar, think the US will acccpt liras?  Besides the fact that the US has approved the F35 sale to Greece, and it seems Greece will get the F35s faster mitigates the risk that the wannabe will try something adventurous in his final years.

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3 hours ago, Mistral said:

When they placed the order, a Turkish lira was 8 to the dollar, now it’s 31 to the dollar, think the US will acccpt liras?  Besides the fact that the US has approved the F35 sale to Greece, and it seems Greece will get the F35s faster mitigates the risk that the wannabe will try something adventurous in his final years.

It is political bribe (planes in exchange for political descision to allow new NATO members) so quite possibly US will acccpt liras - who cares, few more billions of USD issued, not a big deal taking into consideration multi-trillion debt allready made...

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4 hours ago, Mistral said:

When they placed the order, a Turkish lira was 8 to the dollar, now it’s 31 to the dollar, think the US will acccpt liras?  Besides the fact that the US has approved the F35 sale to Greece, and it seems Greece will get the F35s faster mitigates the risk that the wannabe will try something adventurous in his final years.

The US has long had a balance of power thing going on with Turkey and Greece. X number of Greek warplanes in the same ratio as X number of Turkish warplanes.

Things have now changed with the Greek F35 and Rafale buy, tilting in Greek favour.

Edited by TrustMe
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