UK agrees mutual security deals with Finland and Sweden

[urbanoid]

I don't think so, 'Russia' in Finnish sounds nothing like Russia in most languages.

Quote

What is ruska?

Ruska comes from the Sami word “ruškat”, and close to the Finnish word ruskea which means brown. This refers to the time of the year when the spectacular natural phenomena of the autumn foliage happen, or when leaves change colors and the trees get ready for winter.

https://www.foreignersinfinland.fi/post/autumn-in-finland-ruska-and-its-colors-galore

[ink]

13 minutes ago, urbanoid said:

I don't think so, 'Russia' in Finnish sounds nothing like Russia in most languages.

https://www.foreignersinfinland.fi/post/autumn-in-finland-ruska-and-its-colors-galore

Yeah, I had a sneaking suspicion. Anyway, very interesting, thanks! 

[Roman Alymov]

On 9/28/2023 at 12:48 PM, ink said:

Yeah, I had a sneaking suspicion. Anyway, very interesting, thanks! 

Actually "Russia" is "Venäjä" for Finns, " Venemaa" for Estonians (following ancient proto-Slavic tribes name "Venedi" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vistula_Veneti )

[bd1]

additionally ´vene´  means boat in estonian language , addidng some confusion for outsiders at sometimes. 

 

like , bronze age axes, boat-shaped, are ´venekirved´.  machine-translation would be probably russian axes

 

but, ryssa , in finnish is nickname for russians, and not a flattering one 

Edited October 1, 2023 by bd1

[Roman Alymov]

10 minutes ago, bd1 said:

additionally ´vene´  means boat in estonian language , addidng some confusion for outsiders at sometimes. 

 

like , bronze age axes, boat-shaped, are ´venekirved´.  machine-translation would be probably russian axes

 

but, ryssa , in finnish is nickname for russians, and not a flattering one 

Are you sure your picture is matching Battle Axe culture, also called Boat Axe culture, you mentioned?

Battle Axe culture - Wikipedia

[Josh]

Never go axe to mouth…

[bd1]

2 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

Are you sure your picture is matching Battle Axe culture, also called Boat Axe culture, you mentioned?

Battle Axe culture - Wikipedia

pic is from finnish museum  exposition via wiki, there were 7 different subtypes in estonia alone 

[Roman Alymov]

10 minutes ago, bd1 said:

pic is from finnish museum  exposition via wiki, there were 7 different subtypes in estonia alone 

I'm affraid it is stone axes, not bronze you mention. But as you wish. after all as far as i remember dirst bronze axes were imitating the shape of stone ones....

File:Perforated stone battle-axes - National Museum of Finland - DSC04168.JPG - Wikimedia Commons

[bd1]

well, i mentioned bronze age , not bronze axes, although they , while still in use in bronze age, are from earlier age.

and stone tools were in use in iron age too.

technically i was right but you are more right in bigger picture

 

 

[Yama]

11 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

Actually "Russia" is "Venäjä" for Finns, " Venemaa" for Estonians (following ancient proto-Slavic tribes name "Venedi" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vistula_Veneti )

Conversely Finnish word for Sweden is 'Ruotsi' which is of same root as 'Rus'.

 

6 hours ago, bd1 said:

well, i mentioned bronze age , not bronze axes, although they , while still in use in bronze age, are from earlier age.

and stone tools were in use in iron age too.

technically i was right but you are more right in bigger picture

Yes they were 'bronze axe imitations' - probably because bronze was exceedingly scarce in Northern Eurasia. Some stone axes even had a casting line carved on them. For example in Finland, oldest bronze artefacts date around 1500BC, almost 2000 years later than in Southern Europe. 

 

[Sardaukar]

Simo Häyhä spirit is strong.

 

[Sardaukar]

https://www.defmin.fi/en/topical/press_releases_and_news/more_defence_materiel_assistance_to_ukraine.13811.news#30bda23e

Finland will deliver more defence materiel to Ukraine. The President of the Republic decided on the matter on 11 October 2023 on the proposal of the Government.

This will be the 19th package of defence materiel to Ukraine. Replacing the defence materiel capabilities contained in this package will cost Finland an estimated EUR 95 million.

[Sardaukar]

https://maavoimat.fi/en/-/finland-won-the-european-best-sniper-team-competition-

Considered also as the European military sniping championship, the European Best Sniper Team Competition is a demanding competition intended for snipers of the Alliance and its partner nations that aims to test and develop military snipers’ professional competence. Participated by 45 military sniper teams from 25 nations, the competition was won by Finland, the most recent NATO member nation.

[BansheeOne]

Quote

Turkey’s president submits protocol for Sweden’s admission into NATO to parliament for ratification

BY SUZAN FRASER

Updated 6:20 PM MESZ, October 23, 2023

ANKARA, Turkey (AP) — Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has submitted a protocol for Sweden’s admission into NATO to Turkey’s parliament for ratification, his office said Monday, bringing the Nordic country a step closer to membership in the military alliance.

Erdogan had been delaying ratification of Sweden’s membership, accusing Stockholm of being too soft on Kurdish militants and other groups his country considers to be security threats. Turkey also was angered by a series of Quran-burning protests in Sweden.

All 31 NATO allies must endorse Sweden’s membership. Turkey and Hungary are the only two allies that have yet to ratify it.

A brief statement from the presidential communications directorate said Erdogan had signed the protocol on Sweden’s NATO accession, which was then submitted to the Turkish Grand National Assembly. It was not known when Sweden’s membership would come to the floor.

[...]

https://apnews.com/article/turkey-sweden-nato-erdogan-77dce28b7d7386c2e363f2468d089c11

[Stefan Fredriksson]

This is a good short read, written in 2019. https://icds.ee/en/the-hem-and-haw-of-swedens-relationship-with-nato/

Back in early 70's when we kids talked about what would happen if Soviet Union invaded us, there were two things we were certain of; that we kids would be shipped off to the country-side, and that NATO would not let the SU take Sweden uncontested. Not because NATO was kind, but because it was strategically bad to to have Sweden in SU hands.

[Sardaukar]

https://breakingdefense.com/2023/10/us-clears-1-55-billion-in-missile-sales-for-uk-lithuania-finland/

 

Finland’s deal would cover procurement of up to 150 AGM-88G Advanced Anti-Radiation Guided Missiles-Extended Range (AARGM-ERs), with an estimated $500 million cost, produced by Northop Grumman. The missiles, designed to target radars or transmitters, are not currently in use by Finland. However, the Dutch earlier this year announced plans to buy AARGM-ER to equip on its fleet of F-35s, which Finland also plans to operate.

[Josh]

Not sure those are even in use with the usaf. I think they are USN only, with some on order to be fill ins for the SiAW mission until that weapon is fully developed. A very new and capable piece of kit.

[TrustMe]

I believe the AARGM-ER missile was designed to out perform the S400's 400-450km engagement range.

 

 

 

[Josh]

18 minutes ago, TrustMe said:

I believe the AARGM-ER missile was designed to out perform the S400's 400-450km engagement range.

 

 

 

It is a somewhat larger rocket motor on the same AARGM guidance package and warhead. I don't know if "out perform" would be the correct phrase, but certainly it would have a higher burn out speed and longer coasting range, and most likely be faster than the HARM throughout the entire envelope. The other change that might be just as important is being able to be drop fired from internal carriage vice rail launch. That will give F-35s a true ARM to hunt with as opposed to to having to use guided bombs close to the target.

[Sardaukar]

Well, if one believes public figures, AARGM-ER has range of 300km.

Well, since I did start my regular military career as AD missile officer, I can tell that ranges attributed to any missile system are very variable. Something like 450km for S-400 is practically impossible. 

[Josh]

The conditions of the target and launching platform certainly have a huge input.

[Sardaukar]

22 minutes ago, Josh said:

The conditions of the target and launching platform certainly have a huge input.

Curvature of earth has pretty good function too. Even Track-via-Missile have problem with simple geometry and losing sight. Talking about land-based systems now.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Sardaukar

[TrustMe]

1 hour ago, Sardaukar said:

Well, if one believes public figures, AARGM-ER has range of 300km.

Well, since I did start my regular military career as AD missile officer, I can tell that ranges attributed to any missile system are very variable. Something like 450km for S-400 is practically impossible. 

That figure was for slow moving, large targets at large heights. So basically AWACS and tankers. For fighter sized targets it's below 450km. But these large targets still have to be protected hence the new AARGM-ER.

I don't know which SAM you trained on but avionics has improved massively over the last 40 years, directly in proportion of advances in computerisation. For example, when the original F15 was deployed in the 1970's it had only 92kb or RAM !!! and yet it could do lots of neat stuff like have look-down shoot-down modes for it's AAM's. Just think what 50 years advancement can do.

 

30 minutes ago, Sardaukar said:

Curvature of earth has pretty good function too. Even Track-via-Missile have problem with simple geometry and losing sight. Talking about land-based systems now.

I can understand that and I don't know the technical parts behind it but from what I understand the S400 can do that. 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by TrustMe

[Sardaukar]

1 minute ago, TrustMe said:

That figure was for slow moving, large targets at large heights. So basically AWACS and tankers. For fighter sized targets it's below 450km. But these large targets still have to be protected hence the new AARGM-ER.

I don't know which SAM you trained on but avonics has improved massively over the last 40 years, directly in proportion of advances in computerisation. For example, when the orgianal F15 was deployed in the 1970's it had only 92kb or RAM !!! and yet it could do lots of neat stuff like have look-down shoot-down modes for it's AAM's.

 

I can understand that and I don't know the technical parts behind it but from what I understand the S400 can do that. 

 

it is just basic physics things and so.

Basic thing is, if you cannot see it, you cannot shoot it.

That's one reason why AWACS was developed, to see beyond earth curvature. 

Air-to-air combat is different thing from land-(or sea) based things. 

For all land-based radars...they just cannot see through earth. There are some OTH radar systems, but those have different purpose. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over-the-horizon_radar

[TrustMe]

Thanks for your reply.