USAF to buy E-7 Wedgetail

[Dawes]

No surprise there:

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022/04/26/its-the-wedgetail-air-force-to-buy-e-7-to-replace-awacs/

[shep854]

Seems like an outstanding deal, and a huge nod to Oz. Now, the anxious waiting to see how someone tries to screw it up...

Edited April 27, 2022 by shep854

[TrustMe]

The UK is procuring a version of this aircraft also. A joint buy will reduce the cost for both parties.

[DB]

Yeah, but no, that's not at all how it works.

The only rule is that the US may not sell anything to a foreign party at a price lower than they're selling it to the US military.

In practice, it seems that even when US military purchases look cheap, they actually are not. This is just an observation, but they're good at showing a low sticker price to get people to commit to their stuff, then the other shoe drops when there is no longer any choice.

[shep854]

At least the development costs have been covered, so they're pretty much buying the airframes themselves, plus customization.  Expect other nations to jump on.

Is it too early to start with 737 starship memes?  They're not doing bad for a mid-'60s short-hauler.

[DougRichards]

Shall we hope that the USN and USAF can put differences aside and work on joint pilot and crew training for the Wedgetail and the P-8 Poseidon  (and the C-40)? 

They use the same engines, are very close in dimensions, the slight differences being interesting and yes I know that the P-8 has a MAD stinger tail, but the approximately two metre difference in wingspan?  It would have been thought that a common wing would have been useful.  Undoubtedly there must be other similar parts - undercarriage, airscrews, control services, basic avionics, even crew seats, that sort of thing.

Of course both the USAF and USN both use the C-40 Clipper, which again raises issues of economy of scale for the users of that platform. 

 

I am assuming that other Wedgetail and P-8 operators, such as the RAAF and RAF will make use of similar training for at least the flight crews (not the systems operators) of both types.

The 737 airframe has been produced as a large fire fighting tanker aircraft, carrying p to 15,000 litres of fire retardant liquid, so the prospects of building an air to air refueling taker, for smaller airforces (say European air forces that do not require the global reach of a refueling aircraft such as the KC-20) , may be inviting.

 

 

[R011]

The plan is for a prototype to be ready next year, another one the year after, and entry into service by 2027. I'm not sure why a prototype is needed as the aircraft is in service unless the American elctronic fit is more complicated than repalcing a radio or changing the tea maker for a coffee pot.  Hopefully, this doesn't become a shower like turning the KC-767 into the KC-46.

[DougRichards]

25 minutes ago, R011 said:

The plan is for a prototype to be ready next year, another one the year after, and entry into service by 2027. I'm not sure why a prototype is needed as the aircraft is in service unless the American electronic fit is more complicated than replacing a radio or changing the tea maker for a coffee pot.  Hopefully, this doesn't become a shower like turning the KC-767 into the KC-46.

Australian aircraft probably have both a tea maker and a coffee pot.

It may be that other things have to be considered, like USAF fire extinguishers, cup holders, ration storage, and USAF standard toilets or similar.  I am sure that the USAF can find some way of making the effort more expensive and taking longer.

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

1 hour ago, DougRichards said:

Australian aircraft probably have both a tea maker and a coffee pot.

It may be that other things have to be considered, like USAF fire extinguishers, cup holders, ration storage, and USAF standard toilets or similar.  I am sure that the USAF can find some way of making the effort more expensive and taking longer.

 

200 dollar toilet seats, 3 toilets for male, female, non binary.  3 engines for overwater redundancy.

[DougRichards]

7 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

200 dollar toilet seats, 3 toilets for male, female, non binary.  3 engines for overwater redundancy.

You mean that Boeing needs to bring the 727 back in production with a wider body?  And that is five toilets: CisMale, CisFemale, Non-Binary (non cis male) Non- Binary (non cis female) and intersex?

Actually that is offensive as transfem consider themselves to be biological females and transmale consider themselves to be biological males).

Not $200 toilet seats.  $2000 toilet seats, with enough water to go half way up the bowl and inertial dampeners to stop all that water sloshing around under harsh maneuvers.  Let not not forget the $5000 seat belts for each toilet seat.

I suspect that everyone else has gone with commercial airline standard toilets, and that is probably the case for the Poseidon, but you never know what some new defence contactors will suggest for a new 13 year old aircraft design. 

[Stuart Galbraith]

29 minutes ago, DougRichards said:

You mean that Boeing needs to bring the 727 back in production with a wider body?  And that is five toilets: CisMale, CisFemale, Non-Binary (non cis male) Non- Binary (non cis female) and intersex?

Actually that is offensive as transfem consider themselves to be biological females and transmale consider themselves to be biological males).

Not $200 toilet seats.  $2000 toilet seats, with enough water to go half way up the bowl and inertial dampeners to stop all that water sloshing around under harsh maneuvers.  Let not not forget the $5000 seat belts for each toilet seat.

I suspect that everyone else has gone with commercial airline standard toilets, and that is probably the case for the Poseidon, but you never know what some new defence contactors will suggest for a new 13 year old aircraft design. 

Doubleplusungood Doug Richards. You are forgetting expectant mothers/new mothers. So you need a knappy changing facility/toilet. And probably a disabled toilet as well, because we dont want to make anyone feel not inclusive.

Then you will need further shielding to not scramble the brains of those infants and potential future USAF Generals. So the extra weight means a 4th engine...

Say, why dont they just stick with the E3?

 

[BansheeOne]

747 with the workstations on the upper deck, and the main deck filled with toilets?

[Stuart Galbraith]

There you go, with that kind of progressive thinking, you have a clear future in defence procurement.

 

[DougRichards]

4 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Doubleplusungood Doug Richards. You are forgetting expectant mothers/new mothers. So you need a knappy changing facility/toilet. And probably a disabled toilet as well, because we dont want to make anyone feel not inclusive.

Then you will need further shielding to not scramble the brains of those infants and potential future USAF Generals. So the extra weight means a 4th engine...

Say, why dont they just stick with the E3?

 

'Birth mothers' you mean birth parents, as some may be birth fathers.....  and chest feeders ...... it is a 'Brave New World' full of doublespeak and book burning at a temperature of Fahrenheit 451 whilst the Lord of the Flies (actually that is beelzabub - as prophesied), perhaps we will have a canticle for Leibowitz  .  I sometimes think that I am glad that I won't be around in about 20 years to see the chaos. 

[Stuart Galbraith]

14 minutes ago, DougRichards said:

'Birth mothers' you mean birth parents, as some may be birth fathers.....  and chest feeders ...... it is a 'Brave New World' full of doublespeak and book burning at a temperature of Fahrenheit 451 whilst the Lord of the Flies (actually that is beelzabub - as prophesied), perhaps we will have a canticle for Leibowitz  .  I sometimes think that I am glad that I won't be around in about 20 years to see the chaos. 

Yeah, well you can see why im so ambivulent about Putin's nuclear weapons.

 

[Josh]

9 hours ago, DougRichards said:

Shall we hope that the USN and USAF can put differences aside and work on joint pilot and crew training for the Wedgetail and the P-8 Poseidon  (and the C-40)? 

They use the same engines, are very close in dimensions, the slight differences being interesting and yes I know that the P-8 has a MAD stinger tail, but the approximately two metre difference in wingspan?  It would have been thought that a common wing would have been useful.  Undoubtedly there must be other similar parts - undercarriage, airscrews, control services, basic avionics, even crew seats, that sort of thing.

Of course both the USAF and USN both use the C-40 Clipper, which again raises issues of economy of scale for the users of that platform. 

 

I am assuming that other Wedgetail and P-8 operators, such as the RAAF and RAF will make use of similar training for at least the flight crews (not the systems operators) of both types.

The 737 airframe has been produced as a large fire fighting tanker aircraft, carrying p to 15,000 litres of fire retardant liquid, so the prospects of building an air to air refueling taker, for smaller airforces (say European air forces that do not require the global reach of a refueling aircraft such as the KC-20) , may be inviting.

 

 

None of the crew systems would be similar nor would be the flight profile, so likely "no" is the answer.

USN P-8s don't have stingers; I think only the P-8I (Indian) have a MAD boom.

No one has any requirements for tankers in that size range.
 

[Josh]

8 hours ago, R011 said:

The plan is for a prototype to be ready next year, another one the year after, and entry into service by 2027. I'm not sure why a prototype is needed as the aircraft is in service unless the American elctronic fit is more complicated than repalcing a radio or changing the tea maker for a coffee pot.  Hopefully, this doesn't become a shower like turning the KC-767 into the KC-46.

The USAF probably has a huge number of proprietary communication formats and battle management software that other nations don't have to deal with. Probably a much wider array of sat coms, MADL, IFDL, BACN, whatever the B-21 and RQ-180 uses, etc. There is probably a desire to make the E-7 a communications gateway that reaches across all formats and frequencies in use to retransmit data across the entire force.