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Posted

I have seen many pictures including the ones coming out of Ukraine where tanks with ERA are burnt out and destroyed. We are talking blackened hulks. And yet the ERA boxes on the turrets and hulls are intact. Should'nt the explosives in these boxes cook off or ignite from the fire?

Posted (edited)

Those explosives are quite insensitive and will burn, but not explode when exposed to fire. They don't even burn very vigorously.

Edited by bojan
Posted

Which might explain why sometimes they get reported as "empty" and another proof of Russian military corruption.

Posted

This could be nonsense but, Could it be that sometimes they are left empty, especially in vehicles working closely with infantry, to prevent friendly casualties? Seems however that standing next to a tank, ERA o no ERA, that is taking enemy fire is dangerous already, so the extra danger posed by ERA going off could very well be irrelevant.

Posted
8 minutes ago, sunday said:

This could be nonsense

Yes, it is.

Kontakt-1 and -5 are designed to contain the explosive reaction within their cassettes, by merely bulging the plates rather than send them flying.

Posted
13 hours ago, Ssnake said:

Yes, it is.

Kontakt-1 and -5 are designed to contain the explosive reaction within their cassettes, by merely bulging the plates rather than send them flying.

Pardon?

K-1 explosion send cell that is hit flying. Sometimes with neighbouring cells.

K-5 explosion, in case of turret wedges of T-90, send that section (both part of V, AFAIR 10 cells in total) flying. In case of front hull upper plate in one section there are 6 cells, and when section is hit, all those cells are send flying, leaving spot that is no more protected by ERA. 

Posted
12 hours ago, Przezdzieblo said:

Pardon?

K-1 explosion send cell that is hit flying. Sometimes with neighbouring cells.

K-5 explosion, in case of turret wedges of T-90, send that section (both part of V, AFAIR 10 cells in total) flying. In case of front hull upper plate in one section there are 6 cells, and when section is hit, all those cells are send flying, leaving spot that is no more protected by ERA. 

Is there a reason then that you see completely burn out tanks, but their ERA boxes looking intact. NOt even bulged or blown up. Will not the intense fire set of the ERA in the boxes?

Posted

There are fire-insensitive explosives, there are also impact-insensitive explosives. I think there are even explosives insensitive to both.

Posted
4 minutes ago, sunday said:

There are fire-insensitive explosives, there are also impact-insensitive explosives. I think there are even explosives insensitive to both.

Then how can they defeat a CE round?

Posted
Just now, On the way said:

Then how can they defeat a CE round?

Insensitivity could be tuned, possibly varying the mix of explosives and fillers.

Here is an anecdote of a M1 tanker and demounting the TUSK bricks on his tank using a sledgehammer.

Here is an article on the matter.

Posted
1 hour ago, On the way said:

Is there a reason then that you see completely burn out tanks, but their ERA boxes looking intact. NOt even bulged or blown up. Will not the intense fire set of the ERA in the boxes?

K1 and K5 are initiated by the super fast compression from the impacts in excess of... IDR ATM, something like 1300-1400m/s. So that leaves only APFSDS and HEAT as reliable initiators.

In case of fire, explosives will burn, but ERA boxes are not even sealed*, and burning is reasonably slow, so no reason for them to be blown up or bulged.

*Look at the corners of the boxes:

2kyMOql.jpg

Posted

It was thought that sometimes long rod impact is not enough to initiate explosive in ERA cell. K-5 was designed to be fuzed by high-velocity splinters generated by impacting rod. In case of Relikt there is aluminium spacer inside casette for better shock wave transfer into explosives.

Posted
13 hours ago, bojan said:

K1 and K5 are initiated by the super fast compression from the impacts in excess of... IDR ATM, something like 1300-1400m/s. So that leaves only APFSDS and HEAT as reliable initiators.

In case of fire, explosives will burn, but ERA boxes are not even sealed*, and burning is reasonably slow, so no reason for them to be blown up or bulged.

*Look at the corners of the boxes:

2kyMOql.jpg

I see, so the explosives will burn up within the box.

Posted

These explosives seem to sit closer to the term "gas generator" than to more traditional "high explosive". ie their purpose is to push, not to shatter. I think they will be low brisance, if I understand that term correctly.

This plus all the other things mentioned could make the bricks look superficially fine, but they'd still be cooked.

Posted
23 hours ago, Przezdzieblo said:

It was thought that sometimes long rod impact is not enough to initiate explosive in ERA cell. K-5 was designed to be fuzed by high-velocity splinters generated by impacting rod. In case of Relikt there is aluminium spacer inside casette for better shock wave transfer into explosives.

Cassette?  Cassette?  No wonder there is nothing happening, cassettes are so 1970s and 1980s.....  As if tanks were equipped with 8 track protective explosive devices??? 

 

Posted
16 minutes ago, Przezdzieblo said:

Sorry :) Language issues. The proper word would be probably case or container, where ERA inserts are put into.

Cassette is perfectly fine. At least in the North Hemisphere. 😋

Posted

I think Doug was just pulling your leg. Looking up the word in a dictionary, cassette is just fine - as a small box, a lockable small container, especially one that can be replaced without major effort.

Posted

I'm surprised he didn't go on about how Reel To Reel or plastic disks with grooves were the higher fidelity thing to use....

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