UK requests Ballistic Missile Defense Radar

[Dawes]

Aren't these normally linked into some type of missile defense system? 

https://www.dsca.mil/sites/default/files/mas/Press Release - UK 22-10 CN.pdf

[rmgill]

Does the UK already have THAAD or Patriot? 

[Stuart Galbraith]

No, nothing like that.

Strange timing huh?

[Dawes]

This appears to be an FMS buy (assuming it goes all the way through to delivery) of off-the-shelf US equipment. Is there any European company that makes an equivalent system?

Once all the radars, infrastructure, support elements, etc. are in place it would seem that the US could assign Patriot and/or THAAD units on short notice.

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Dawes

[lucklucky]

3 hours ago, Dawes said:

This appears to be an FMS buy (assuming it goes all the way through to delivery) of off-the-shelf US equipment. Is there any European company that makes an equivalent system?

Once all the radars, infrastructure, support elements, etc. are in place it would seem that the US could assign Patriot and/or THAAD units on short notice.

 

I think in West only US and Israel.

[Stuart Galbraith]

10 hours ago, Dawes said:

This appears to be an FMS buy (assuming it goes all the way through to delivery) of off-the-shelf US equipment. Is there any European company that makes an equivalent system?

Once all the radars, infrastructure, support elements, etc. are in place it would seem that the US could assign Patriot and/or THAAD units on short notice.

 

That is my guess. Althought I find it difficult to believe its going to stop an ICBM with any kind of reliablity. I guess its a lot better than nothing.

There was talk about giving Type 45's a BMD capablity, assuming they developed it, I wonder if you could net this into the same system?

[Dawes]

If the UAE's experience is anything to go by, THAAD seems to be effective against short range, IRBM-type threats. Of course, an ICBM is a whole new ball game. Even the old US Spartan/Sprint team (with their extreme performance) weren't a sure bet. 

[futon]

5 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

That is my guess. Althought I find it difficult to believe its going to stop an ICBM with any kind of reliablity. I guess its a lot better than nothing.

There was talk about giving Type 45's a BMD capablity, assuming they developed it, I wonder if you could net this into the same system?

Probably possible even if Type 45 wasn't using Aegis. Japan's BMD is Aegis destroyer layer using SM-3 then JASDF's PAC-3. So there's an example of it being done. A little on thst 10 pages down: https://warp.da.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/11591426/www.mod.go.jp/e/publ/w_paper/pdf/2017/DOJ2017_3-1-2_web.pdf

It'll have to evolve though to retain effectiveness as new types of BMs emerge. 

Edited March 18, 2022 by futon

[Josh]

49 minutes ago, Dawes said:

If the UAE's experience is anything to go by, THAAD seems to be effective against short range, IRBM-type threats. Of course, an ICBM is a whole new ball game. Even the old US Spartan/Sprint team (with their extreme performance) weren't a sure bet. 

I don't think THAAD has a significant ICBM ability. SM-3 Blk 2A seems to have some kind of limited capability, or at least was tested against a single ICBM class target.

Not sure why the Brits would need this; surely they must get hooked into the Aegis site in Poland? And as far as I know there are no operational IRBMs, just cruise missiles.

[Stuart Galbraith]

From what I understand, we bumped our decision to buy one till 2029 just a month ago. So either minds have rapidly changed, such as pending nuclear armageddon,or it reflects the slow pace of American Bureaucracy as much as the British one.

 No, I don't understand it. Unless someone has got really worked up about the threat of Kalibr.

[TrustMe]

19 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

From what I understand, we bumped our decision to buy one till 2029 just a month ago. So either minds have rapidly changed, such as pending nuclear armageddon,or it reflects the slow pace of American Bureaucracy as much as the British one.

 No, I don't understand it. Unless someone has got really worked up about the threat of Kalibr.

We lived for decades under the threat of Russian Bear Bombers carrying nuclear tipped cruise missiles for decades with the ability of firing it's missiles outside the range of our fighter aircraft. Kalibr is no different. 

Theirs a ballistic missile defence radar system located in Yorkshire called "Flying Dales". I've driven passed it, it looks like giant golf ball's.

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by TrustMe

[sunday]

Curious, Filyngdales exchanged the golf balls for a truncated tetrahedron housing a three-faced AESA radar.

[TrustMe]

1 minute ago, sunday said:

Curious, Filyngdales exchanged the golf balls for a truncated tetrahedron housing a three-faced AESA radar.

I didn't realise that, but it's been 20 years since I went passed there 😀

[sunday]

Just now, TrustMe said:

I didn't realise that, but it's been 20 years since I went passed there 😀

It happens, it happens...

[Stuart Galbraith]

Menwith hill still has football's but, as with Teufesberg, they may be hiding things other than Radar.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Menwith_Hill

[TrustMe]

I wouldn't like to live in either Menwith Hill or Flying Dales. They'll be the first targets in any nuclear strategic exchange.

[Stuart Galbraith]

On the contrary, living right next door to a nuclear target is just what you do want. Unless you want to be shitting in tinfoil under a couple of doors with the rest of the family for two weeks.

Besides, here is a good case for saying these would be the last targets hit. They would want us to know they aren't giving us a knock out blow. No until they do anyway...

[DB]

The report I saw for this was rather confusing.

It noted that the potential FMS was authorised, but at the same time jabbered on about how the latest defence review had postponed the procurement by a number of years. It's quite clear that there is no associated (public) purchase of a US missile system to go with it, and the UK hasn't previously shown interest in SAMP/T, let alone the ballistic missile upgrades for ASTER 30.

Perhaps this paragraph makes it clear though:

Quote

The proposed sale will improve UK’s ability to meet current and future ballistic missile threats to the UK and NATO by improving the effectiveness of NATO BMD systems

This is the article that was confusing, in the context of the announcement of the potential FMS:

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/plan-to-build-british-ballistic-missile-defence-radar-slips-to-2029/

Note that it mentions "Lewis" - unless there's something else going on, that's a Western Isle and is where this ROTOR radar system used to be:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Aird_Uig

Maybe this fills a gap that is exposed by non-ballistic hypersonic missiles.