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Authoritarism in Hungary and Poland


Mikel2

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But they did bring Freedom Tractors (TM) and are liberating equipment from the occupying forces :D

Mw93i1L.png

Edited by bojan
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20 hours ago, lucklucky said:

Not sure why this gets reported as protesting "globalist climate change restrictions" when in reality the legislation the protests are against are about restricting nitrogen buildup in water systems and resulting eutrophication. I suppose "globalist climate change restrictions" sounds worse to the target audience and gets shared more than Netherlands trying to protect it's water ecosystems. Whether 70% reduction is reasonable and necessary is then it's own question, haven't really dug into the details so will not comment.

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Even if absolutely needed it is an idiotic policy to implement at the beginning of the serious food crisis.

Edited by bojan
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19 minutes ago, bojan said:

Even if absolutely needed it is an idiotic policy to implement at the beginning of the serious food crisis.

Certainly seems harsh and extreme measure to take at this point, and also it raises the question, since as i've understood manure is the main source of nitrogen pollution in the water systems, how far would it be profitable to sell the manure as fertilizer with the prices of synthetic fertilizers going through the roof...

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3 hours ago, bojan said:

Even if absolutely needed it is an idiotic policy to implement at the beginning of the serious food crisis.

I figure economists etc. talking about "food security" will soon be on government disinformation lists.

 

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1 minute ago, Ivanhoe said:

I figure economists etc. talking about "food security" will soon be on government disinformation lists.

 

The usual suspects will try to steamroll any dissenting opinion, too.

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14 hours ago, bojan said:

But they did bring Freedom Tractors (TM) and are liberating equipment from the occupying forces :D

Mw93i1L.png

Source of some funny hoaxes, even the recycled ones.

06ba91d06240d1a9.jpeg

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Considering the amount of running armor in Holland and Belgium just based on what shows up to tanks in town....
 

Though some obviously comes over from the UK. 

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On 7/8/2022 at 10:01 AM, jmsaari said:

Certainly seems harsh and extreme measure to take at this point, and also it raises the question, since as i've understood manure is the main source of nitrogen pollution in the water systems, how far would it be profitable to sell the manure as fertilizer with the prices of synthetic fertilizers going through the roof...

Why this problem only occurs in Netherlands?

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6 minutes ago, jmsaari said:

Who ever said it only occurs there? It is more severe though in a place with a lot of farmland and shallow water systems, like NL.

Well i have never seen any similar claim.

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8 minutes ago, lucklucky said:

Well i have never seen any similar claim.

Depends on where you live, we've had very much a milder version of the same issue over here for half a century or so. In southern Finland especially where the farmlands are mostly concentrated, also not only inland but the baltic sea which is relatively shallow brackish water system for a sea with little change of water and plenty of agriculture & cities in the shores.

Nitrogen (& phosphorous) from agriculture & sewage waters was turning increasingly large areas of water into green toxic cyanobacteria porridge and/or dead through anoxia during summers until starting to slowly get better since ~10-20 years or so after various restrictions on agriculture near waters. Or in case of Baltic, that too but mostly a waste water treatment plant in St Petersburg instead of just dumping the sewage waters into sea...

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2 hours ago, lucklucky said:

Well i have never seen any similar claim.

Well, it is an issue here in Lower Saxony where our authorities are dragging their feet to reduce nitrate contamination of the ground water. Sure, the EU says so, and the EU says so because it causes liver cancer in the population. On the other hand, pork chops. Hmmmmmm....

Decisions, decisions.

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On 7/8/2022 at 8:46 PM, rmgill said:

Considering the amount of running armor in Holland and Belgium just based on what shows up to tanks in town....
 

Though some obviously comes over from the UK. 

Overloon probably has more armor than the Dutch Army. 😢

--
Leo

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  • 2 weeks later...

In fact I have the feeling (though maybe it's mostly wishful thinking) that with the conflict between Western liberalism and Eastern authoritarianism starkly emphasized by Ukraine, Poland is beginning to turn away from the latter; while Orban is doubling down on preaching salvation through Russian gas and racial purity. At this step I expect him to hold forth about protecting the essence of your bodily fluids next as he realizes he can't keep on buying off the electorate with EU money while simultaneously blaming the EU for all ills of the world. Mind, I'm pretty sure the reporting on the current protests against reversal of his tax cut plans is guided by a lot of wishful thinking.

For Poland, trying to introduce a sort of Putinism with an anti-Russian bend was never going to survive actual confrontation with Russia. I'm sure there are guys in the current government who still hope they could become a kind of Northern Turkey to the West, supported for its geo-strategic importance without paying too much attention to common values. In this age, that would require rather unlikely circumstances though, in particular a US administration driven by contradictory ideologies in contemporary American politics; and in the end Poland is too much of a Western country.

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I hope you are right, and there are some indications that this is actually the case. Current government made some concessions regarding the rule of law/ judicary reforms to not be punished financially by the EU. Actual implementation of that is kinda slow, but the gesture is really important. 

Basically, the current ruling party seems to be in a state of cognitive dissonance regarding what is happening. The obvious thing to do is to denounce Putin, putinism and anything authoritarian, and they are actually doing it. It means a 180 degree change of course though, and it's not that easy. There are parliamentary elections in 2023 and hopefully PiS rule will end, as "the masses" are quite unhappy with economic hardships, and in general bored with them. 

What I think will happen (maybe hope/ wish really...) is that all this anti-European BS will stop soon. Poland has to be committed to the European project, but in less naive way than before. While still not on the level of DE or FR, Poland packs a much heavier punch economically than 10 years ago, same for the whole CEE. And politically, with renewed Cold War, turning into an armed camp a bit will will increase our importance immensely. I'd really prefer that we realize the grandiose ambitions this way, instead of going against the EU just for the sake of it.

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2 hours ago, Huba said:

Somebody ruined a perfectly good swastika with this gay crap? As a good authoritarian, I second the decision to jail him.

You're not a good authoritarian unless you jail people who put pineapple and/or mayo on pizza.

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