Authoritarism in Hungary and Poland

[old_goat]

On 6/18/2025 at 2:34 PM, urbanoid said:

Today I learned something new, Hungary actually has a political formation named Two-Tailed Dog Party.

Started as a "joke-party". But by now it is entirely obvious that they are no joke at all. They are a far left, openly marxist party.

 

[old_goat]

9 minutes ago, Stargrunt6 said:

I just read Hungary is Europe's poorest nation. Wow, when you beat Moldova....

Untrue. Although not entirely. Second poorest in european union after Bulgaria. Result of 15 years of kleptocracy... We really need a true right wing government. 

[urbanoid]

10 minutes ago, Stargrunt6 said:

I just read Hungary is Europe's poorest nation. Wow, when you beat Moldova....

The claims are about being 'EU's poorest nation', which also depends on the metric used. According to Eurostat it's the poorest based not on GDP per capita, but the consumption level. Then again if the people are e.g. saving instead of spending they can become 'poor' according to such metric.

Seems to me it's more of a 'twitter fact' than an actual fact, no 'serious' publications about it in Western economic journals, the articles I found were from India, Ukraine, Georgia and the like.

 

[urbanoid]

7 minutes ago, old_goat said:

Untrue. Although not entirely. Second poorest in european union after Bulgaria. Result of 15 years of kleptocracy... We really need a true right wing government. 

If the consumption of Orban's third world slaves for the foreign capital is being counted by the Eurostat, then it's actually good. I mean, they shouldn't be there in the first place, but if they are it's better if they're not paid too well. 

11 minutes ago, old_goat said:

Started as a "joke-party". But by now it is entirely obvious that they are no joke at all. They are a far left, openly marxist party.

What about this Tisza thing that's allegedly leading in the polls? 

[old_goat]

23 hours ago, urbanoid said:

If the consumption of Orban's third world slaves for the foreign capital is being counted by the Eurostat, then it's actually good. I mean, they shouldn't be there in the first place, but if they are it's better if they're not paid too well. 

Unfortunately, immigrants have quite decent salaries. The money they get for their work is actually somewhat lower than what hungarians get for the same job, however, they also get free accomodation from the government, and also allowances for buying food. So if you count these too, their salaries are much higher after all...

23 hours ago, urbanoid said:

What about this Tisza thing that's allegedly leading in the polls? 

Not allegedly. They are definitely leading the polls. Most hungarians are fed up with Orbán's kleptocracy. The regime is crumbling with an accelerating rate. Orbán received a huge slap on the face this weekend with the Pride. Back in february, they made huge announcement that they will ban it, and this actually caused quite a ruckus both internally and internationally. Initially this led to quite significant boost to Orbán's popularity, since most hungarians reject LGBTQP propaganda. But of course, Orbán cant be trusted, he is a notorious liar. This weekend, the LGBTQP actors and the marxists together organized the largest Pride ever, with about 200.000 people attending instead of the usual 15-20k, despite the official "ban"... The only thing the police (who are answering to Orbán directly) did, is to restrict and isolate the actually quite large counter protest by right wingers and patriots. Orbán simply couldt save face now. This severely weakened his already crumbling regime. Some of his supporters now turned to the only righ wing party here (Mi Hazánk). Others are turning to Tisza, seeing how weak Fidesz became. Now it looks like Tisza will win a landslide victory next year, which, unfortunately will be a catastrophe for this country. They are openly globalists and marxists. This clearly shows how utterly stupid and unintelligent average hungarians are. Instead of voting for the right wing, they will vote for the far left, just because they can replace Orbán's regime... Nothing else matters for them. 

 

[urbanoid]

23 minutes ago, old_goat said:

Unfortunately, immigrants have quite decent salaries. The money they get for their work is actually somewhat lower than what hungarians get for the same job, however, they also get free accomodation from the government, and also allowances for buying food. So if you count these too, their salaries are much higher after all...

Not allegedly. They are definitely leading the polls. Most hungarians are fed up with Orbán's kleptocracy. The regime is crumbling with an accelerating rate. Orbán received a huge slap on the face this weekend with the Pride. Back in february, they made huge announcement that they will ban it, and this actually caused quite a ruckus both internally and internationally. Initially this led to quite significant boost to Orbán's popularity, since most hungarians reject LGBTQP propaganda. But of course, Orbán cant be trusted, he is a notorious liar. This weekend, the LGBTQP actors and the marxists together organized the largest Pride ever, with about 200.000 people attending instead of the usual 15-20k, despite the official "ban"... The only thing the police (who are answering to Orbán directly) did, is to restrict and isolate the actually quite large counter protest by right wingers and patriots. Orbán simply couldt save face now. This severely weakened his already crumbling regime. Some of his supporters now turned to the only righ wing party here (Mi Hazánk). Others are turning to Tisza, seeing how weak Fidesz became. Now it looks like Tisza will win a landslide victory next year, which, unfortunately will be a catastrophe for this country. They are openly globalists and marxists. This clearly shows how utterly stupid and unintelligent average hungarians are. Instead of voting for the right wing, they will vote for the far left, just because they can replace Orbán's regime... Nothing else matters for them. 

 

From the government or by the employers?

Either from employer's or state's POV it doesn't make sense to pay the foreigner more. Not even the same from state's POV, as a Hungarian will at least spend his money in Hungary and an economic migrant will be sending as much home as possible, hence my hint at consumption levels not necessarily being the best metric to measure country's poverty levels. And yet you're saying the state actually subsidizes them, on top of extracting less from their consumption than they would have from the Hungarian one.

Doesn't make sense, unless serious corruption is involved, where on one hand they work for the employer, on other the state subsidizes them from your taxes and those 'favors' are being repaid to some private accounts in Dubai and the like. 

Do you consider everything 'not-far-right' to be 'marxist'? Usually it's being described as a center/center-right party, sort of our shitlibs* currently in charge, but I wouldn't call them marxist. I also doubt that Hungarians would vote for such guys and yet y'all seem to want to. 

Maybe breaking the corrupt stranglehold Orban has on a country is worth it? 

*they're probably quite skewed somewhat to the right compared to 'Euro right' average, despite being considered shitlib here - but our political scene largely looks like that, skewed to the right in general.

[old_goat]

16 minutes ago, urbanoid said:

Either from employer's or state's POV it doesn't make sense to pay the foreigner more. Not even the same from state's POV, as a Hungarian will at least spend his money in Hungary and an economic migrant will be sending as much home as possible, hence my hint at consumption levels not necessarily being the best metric to measure country's poverty levels. And yet you're saying the state actually subsidizes them, on top of extracting less from their consumption than they would have from the Hungarian one.

It looks like this, for the same job:

Hungarian: Employer pays x amount, state steals 1/3 of it, then done.

Immigrant: Employer pays ~ 80% of x amount, state steals 1/3 of it. BUT! Employer gets y amount of money from state as allowance after immigrants. The state also pays for the accomodation and food for the immigrant, through state run firms (Yep, as you guessed it, corruption involved) 

Of course you can say it doesnt make sense. Unfortunately, there is some sense in it. Before the mass import of immigrants, we had extremely good employment rate. But since the Orbán regime is a pure globalist one, and cares for only one thing, GDP, he needed to invite as many foreign corporations as possible. And these need only untrained workforce that can be employed for as little money as possible. Thats where the immigrants came in, since there were no surplus hungarians to do the jobs. 

24 minutes ago, urbanoid said:

Do you consider everything 'not-far-right' to be 'marxist'?

Nope. Actually, while Im a right winger, I have zero problems with centrist parties. (and I even view classical, non-woke liberalism positively!) But Tisza is not one of them. They openly support globalism, LGBTQP, immigration. They also reject nationalistic ideas and christian religion. Some of their members are ex-commies. So basically, 100% shitlibs. Of course most european news organizations describe them as "centrists", but the same people decribe Orbán "fascist, far right, nationalist, etc."

28 minutes ago, urbanoid said:

Maybe breaking the corrupt stranglehold Orban has on a country is worth it? 

No. They are even worse than Orbán. But do not get me wrong. I want Orbán gone. But not replaced with a worse entity. Btw, Tisza's leader, Magyar Péter actually came from Orbán's party, and shares quite lot of the globalist ideas from his old master. He is also extremely corrupt. As I said previously, next year hungarians will have 3 choices: Good (Mi Hazánk), Terrible (Orbán), even worse (Tisza).