Dawes Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 Was this aircraft considered a success for Dassault? It was a departure from their typical delta-wing designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETAC21 Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 Yes, it sold really well, and pilots that flew it rated as better than the Mirage III, but it didn't age well, as it was firmly in the light fighter arena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrustMe Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 The Mirage F1 was designed initially as an export fighter, light weight and cheap, but then bought by France for their airforce. And as RETAC21 said it was wildly exported. It supposedly, was almost as good as the F16, that's why Iraq ordered it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 15 hours ago, TrustMe said: It supposedly, was almost as good as the F16, that's why Iraq ordered it. The Mirage 2000, yes. But not the F1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanoid Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 Oh, I think that it would depend on a scenario with early F-16s, which had no BVR capability, while F1s did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 Early F-16s had no BVR capability? What was the limiting factor? Radar? Weapons integration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanoid Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 The radar wasn't designed to work with Sparrows and there were no AMRAAMs yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 (edited) Ah I see, thanks. Quite limited then. Edited September 26, 2021 by Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucklucky Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 Radar had no CW illuminator necessary for Sparrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yama Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 Block 15 (or 20 or thereabouts) was wired for Sparrow, but full integration, complete with illuminator, was not done until the ADF. Any way, the plane could only carry 2 Sparrows. Some subsesquent export versions for Arab countries were equipped with Sparrows. Re: Mirage F1, it was an excellent design but pretty old-fashioned. It was basically just same old late '50s technology as in Mirage III repackaged with more fuel and different wing. Dassault always had a better eye for practicality than the AdA, and F1 was one of the Dassault in-house designs which bailed out the Air Force once they had painted themselves into corner with their crazy schemes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanoid Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 What schemes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETAC21 Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 On 9/26/2021 at 1:35 PM, Doug said: The Mirage 2000, yes. But not the F1. The comparison refers to the Fighter of the century competition (the one from the 70s) in which Belgium, the Netherlands, Norway and Denmark chose their future fighter in 1975 among the F-16A, Mirage F1, Northrop YF-17 and the Saab Viggen. Dassault took the opportunity to sell the F1 to Iraq, among others, by saying that the F1 nearly won and only the US political clout and influence (read corruption) kept the Frenchman down. At the time the F-16A was strictly BVR, mainly tactical and without much to differentiate it from the F1, but of course it had a huge growth potential while the F1 was essentially a souped up Mirage III. They still managed to give good service to their users and were quite popular, but by the turn of the century they were obsolete. https://www.nytimes.com/1975/07/27/archives/the-f16-and-how-it-won-europe-the-f16-and-how-it-won-europes-orders.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETAC21 Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 Just now, urbanoid said: What schemes? The Mirage G, because we want a F-111 that speaks French! The Mirage F2 with the TF-30 turbofan of F-111 and F-14 fame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanoid Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 That would've been awesome. And expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrustMe Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 Or how about a twin engine Mirage 2000 the Mirage 4000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_4000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 17 hours ago, TrustMe said: Or how about a twin engine Mirage 2000 the Mirage 4000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_4000 That looks awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETAC21 Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 17 hours ago, TrustMe said: Or how about a twin engine Mirage 2000 the Mirage 4000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_4000 Yes, but that was a private venture by Dassault There was the Mach 3 MD750, because we can: "The Air Force's BPA (Prospective Air Office) gave a favorable opinion on November 22, 1965, specifying that it should remain a study, and not a program sheet. This resulted in a call for tenders launched on December 14, 1965 by the CPE at Breguet, Dassault, Nord and Sud Aviation. Proposals from Dassault and Sud Aviation were accepted in May 1966. Matra and Thomson were asked to design the corresponding missiles and radar. Matra is already imagining the fixed electronic scanning antenna, now operational on Rafale, and Thomson's studies will ultimately serve as a basis for the Super 530. 10 types of engines (including turbojet / ramjet combinations) are being considered, including 8 by Snecma. A project was also designed around the J58 which equips the SR-71. Others are based on the TF306: this engine, derived from the TF30 and fitted to the Mirage F2 and G, will give the Snecma the experience necessary to work on the successor to the Atar, the M53. One of the projects, the LZ1-43, has 2 M53s." Googletrasnlated from here: https://aviationsmilitaires.net/v3/kb/aircraft/show/758/dassault-md-750-mirage-mach-iii La Royale also had it's share, like the Etendard V, a French missileer "TActique Longue Portée" Ie "Long range tactical (fighter)". TALP was for a fighter in F-6D Missileer style (Subsonic with a powerfull radar). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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