Stuart Galbraith Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 Wash your mouth out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanoid Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 43 minutes ago, seahawk said: I still wonder why AUKUS could not be AUKUSFR. Geee.... could it be the fact that France (and the rest of the EU as well) isn't really interested in countering Chynahs newfound 'assertiveness'? Australia is there, US will fight because it has to, UK looks for a new 'place under the sun' after Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn239 Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 Just now, urbanoid said: Geee.... could it be the fact that France (and the rest of the EU as well) isn't really interested in countering Chynahs newfound 'assertiveness'? Well there you go then. China can buy the French submarines instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanoid Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 Chynah has their own and I'm pretty sure they're substantially cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETAC21 Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 12 hours ago, Josh said: So your example of the fact that nuclear submarines don't travel at speed is an example of a submarine traveling at speed? Every public source I've read about this incident indicated it was hardly poking around at 10 knots, which is what an SSK would be doing. I would also point out that while ships move around, geography generally doesn't. I don't know what caused this particular accident, but it should generally be avoidable with accurate sea maps and an accurate INS system, updated occasionally by GPS. I believe there have been acknowledged collisions with whales that caused damage though. The point flew way over your head, I see. What happened this particular incident was a combination of a SSN doing a flank speed transit and an uncharted ocean, which is why usually SSNs don't do high speeds as routine. Remember, we know better the geography of Mars than we do know that of the ocean bottoms, plus sealife, as you mention... Given your faith in GPS and other systems, I guess you won't have objections to driving cars blindfolded relying just on GPS and proximity warnings, because that is the equivalent of going full clip on a sub with all sonars blanked off by noise. Plus the not so small factor that noise levels go way up, of course, and the Chinese will have their own SSNs in numbers by 2040 as they have just finished their own building yard, doubling their production capacity at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETAC21 Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 4 hours ago, shep854 said: "Yes, they need them to protect the trade routes with China given that they provide most of the war materiel the Chinese economy needs."--Mistral The problem is that PRC is greedy...the old 'give them an inch and they'll take a mile' problem. This, the Oz SSNs are not needed to protect the trade routes, but to deter Chynah from taking over the source of the resources they need to sell stuff to the rest of the World. Previously, Oz could rely on the US to keep the Chinese at bay, nowadays? it seems not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 4 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said: Ok, lets unpack that. The whole procession of escalating nonsense arguments was dissected here eight years ago already. Not gonna do that again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahawk Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 41 minutes ago, urbanoid said: Geee.... could it be the fact that France (and the rest of the EU as well) isn't really interested in countering Chynahs newfound 'assertiveness'? Australia is there, US will fight because it has to, UK looks for a new 'place under the sun' after Brexit. Too bad that Australia did not voice their concern about the lack of a backbone by the French in the August: https://www.foreignminister.gov.au/minister/marise-payne/media-release/inaugural-australia-france-22-ministerial-consultations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 (edited) Go have a look at a list of how many nations picked up second hand Leopard 2s in the 1990s, and tell me with a straight face it made no absolutely difference to anyone else's sales. I'm sure all of those nations would have picked up used M60A3s instead.😒 Edited September 22, 2021 by Stuart Galbraith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanoid Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 Well, they had other negotiations ongoing and they were supposed to be kept secret. And it's not Australia's role to point out what France should or shouldn't do internationally, they just need to pick partners whose politics align with theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahawk Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 Indeed, trusting the EU is always a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETAC21 Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 19 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said: Go have a look at a list of how many nations picked up second hand Leopard 2s in the 1990s, and tell me with a straight face it made no absolutely difference to anyone else's sales. I'm sure all of those nations would have picked up used M60A3s instead.😒 LOL, they did! Let's see: Austria Greece Turkey Spain Portugal The following users "replaced" the Leopard 1 with the Leopard 2 Denmark Norway Canada Chile Netherlands And the Dutch sold a bunch of them second hand, so you can't blame the eevil Germans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 (edited) You might have missed the 'all'. Yeah, well I was planning on letting them off for the evil Dutch. 🙈 Edited September 22, 2021 by Stuart Galbraith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 17 minutes ago, seahawk said: Indeed, trusting the EU is always a mistake. Let's face it, trusting any politician is a mistake. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn239 Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 1 hour ago, urbanoid said: Chynah has their own and I'm pretty sure they're substantially cheaper. When Russia sold S-400's to Turkey, was it really about the missiles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 Bojo heals the rift using his well renowned tact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 I also thought this was interesting. Which probably doesn't mean much if you aren't aware of this. https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/babcock-pitch-type-31-frigate-design-in-greece/ The great game goes on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 29 minutes ago, RETAC21 said: LOL, they did! Let's see: Austria Greece Turkey Spain Portugal The following users "replaced" the Leopard 1 with the Leopard 2 Denmark Norway Canada Chile Netherlands And the Dutch sold a bunch of them second hand, so you can't blame the eevil Germans... Ah, the great european tank swap, it might be back on tracks if the poles start dropping their Leo2s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 (edited) Chances of anyone in Europe buying C2 were 0 once British have decided on the unique gun. Edited September 22, 2021 by bojan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETAC21 Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, bojan said: Chances of anyone in Europe buying C2 were 0 once British have decided on the unique gun. And because it was produced from 1993, when there were scores of second hand tanks to be had in Yurrop that had to be transferred or destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, bojan said: Chances of anyone in Europe buying C2 were 0 once British have decided on the unique gun. Yes, that is probably true, but I don't think its true of Leclerc. Or for that matter, lest we be too North European centric, Ariete C1 and 2. Edited September 22, 2021 by Stuart Galbraith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said: I also thought this was interesting. Which probably doesn't mean much if you aren't aware of this. https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/babcock-pitch-type-31-frigate-design-in-greece/ The great game goes on.... Or that the Jean Bart is a positively ancient and worn out boat with a large crew that offers no modern AA capability whilst being an AA frigate of almost destroyer size. Edited September 22, 2021 by Daan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 But it's not British! How could they possibly refuse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahawk Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said: Bojo heals the rift using his well renowned tact. He simply states facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 (edited) Yes, with the balletic grace of Jason Voorhees with a chainsaw. Edited September 22, 2021 by Stuart Galbraith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now