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M1A2's for Poland?


Dawes
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Why not stick with the Leopard 2. They already have them as the link state's. Less need to retrain and maintain plus Leopard 2's are in use in nearly all the European NATO countries except for France and the UK. 

Edited by TrustMe
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The Leopard 2 is good, but far from perfect (especially that hull ammo stowage). Also, I don't know how much of a role it plays in the strategic thinking of the Polish government, they might see a high dependency of their whole tank fleet on German support as a liability, or maybe they just want to poke a finger into Germany's eye for Nordstream 2 (not that I believe that the German government is bending over backwards to cover Krauss-Maffei's (or any other German defense corporation's) flank with political support).

Buying tanks is at least as much a political decision than it is based on technological merits and price.

 

Whether the M1A2 is the optimal choice is a different question.

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Weren't the Poles "uninvited" from the project "MBT of the future"?  That could be the receipt. 
Maybe Poland just want to threaten, but the scenario is not entirely improbable.  Yes, there is a lot of politics involved here.

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Ok, I can confirm with 100% that M1A2 is favorite besides K2PL. M1A2 have one significant advantage over K2PL... It exist in large numbers.

 

There are other reasons.

 

1. Polish Army want to replace ASAP as many T-72's as possible.

2. In mid term it would be desirable to replace PT-91's.

3. In long term replacement of Leopard 2's is also desired. MoD is not happy with Leopard 2PL upgrade, let's say, there is a certain distaste to it.

4. MGCS so far is a fairy tale with death star syndrome. Germany and France can't agree on main gun for example.

5. Politics, NS2 etc.

 

We might see official announcement or even contract signed in september, during MSPO expo.

Anyway, new tanks are badly needed, and better ones than what we currently have.

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3 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Im wondering if this is some method of staying close to the Americas, and stick to their promise under Trump to setup a base in Poland. I think the actual utility of the vehicle is secondary to the message its  being used to send.

Its not that. US Army prepositioned stock for Armor Brigade is being built in Powidz as we speak.

Aegis Ashore site in Redzikowo is in final stages of being finished, radars and VLS launchers are being integrated right now.

Drawsko Pomorskie training center is expanded in to large military base as we speak.

Next in line is Żagań-Świętoszów military complex that will be enlarged to house 2x polish army Armored cavalry brigades and 1x US Army armor brigade.

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18 minutes ago, Dawes said:

I'm guessing that Polish crews have already operated/tested the Abrams?

Yes, many times. From what I heard they are very impressed with M1A2SEPv2, because this was the most common variant seen here.

M1A2PL will most likely be based on M1A2SEPv3, however exact configuration is not yet known. Some rumors claim that it might be equipped with Trophy HV active protection system, but so far these are rumors only.

Edited by Damian
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55 minutes ago, R011 said:

I doubt there are any surplus Leopards left and new ones might cost more than refurbished M1s.

Yes, but there is plenty of other reasons, both technical and political.

 

Also plenty of rumors from Poland + several Independent sources from abroad, suggest, that M1 is the most likely victor of the "Wolf" program.

Edited by Damian
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Will these tanks repaired and maintained by Poland alone, with "war with Russia" sized amount of spare parts, APS reloads and DU APFSDS?

If not, will their contract contains the Iraqi closure ("we don't follow you to places where there is any chance of meeting the enemy")?

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1 minute ago, Adam Peter said:

Will these tanks repaired and maintained by Poland alone, with "war with Russia" sized amount of spare parts, APS reloads and DU APFSDS?

If not, will their contract contains the Iraqi closure ("we don't follow you to places where there is any chance of meeting the enemy")?

We don't know details yet. Howe er most likely tanks will be maintained by GDLS in cooperation with local industry, just like in every other case.

We need to wait for Polish MoD official statement or US DSCA agency statement. And as I said, it might happen in september, during MSPO expo.

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Ironically, this is probably easier to swallow for KMW than a K2PL purchase would have been since a significant contract like this one would have given the latter an important foothold in the European tank market, and while it could be argued that this foothold has now been given to GDLS, I just don’t think they’ll be able to leverage this as effectively as Hyundai Rotem could have.

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2 minutes ago, sunday said:

Any plans to replace the gas turbine power plant?

No details yet. We need to wait. We don't even know if M1 is really the winner.

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7 minutes ago, Laser Shark said:

Ironically, this is probably easier to swallow for KMW than a K2PL purchase would have been since a significant contract like this one would have given the latter an important foothold in the European tank market, and while it could be argued that this foothold has now been given to GDLS, I just don’t think they’ll be able to leverage this as effectively as Hyundai Rotem could have.

We don't know yet if M1 is the winner. MoD might surprise us and choose K2PL. Heck they might even choose both.

I would wait till official informations will be avaiable.

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5 hours ago, R011 said:

I doubt there are any surplus Leopards left and new ones might cost more than refurbished M1s.

This.

Greece also looked closely at used M1s in recent years (a program that seems to have gone nowhere due to cost and lack of funds) but the reason is simply that there are no used Leo2 available and for buying new the cost is prohibitive.

Also, I should look up some details, but from what I remember Greece found out that refurbished M1s are damn expesive as well.

Edited by rohala
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Quote

Also, I should look up some details, but from what I remember Greece found out that refurbished M1s are damn expesive as well.

Logistics are going to be an issue. In Gulf War fuel consumption of Abrams was 288% higher than M60.

 

Quote

MoD is not happy with Leopard 2PL upgrade, let's say, there is a certain distaste to it.


Is this because of the weight limitations of versions operated by Poland?

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2 hours ago, alejandro_ said:

Logistics are going to be an issue. In Gulf War fuel consumption of Abrams was 288% higher than M60.

 


Is this because of the weight limitations of versions operated by Poland?

No, there is more problems. Both technical, and lets say cooperation with Rheinmetall is not the best. There are other issues I heard about, but I wont talk about them in public.

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https://www.gov.pl/web/obrona-narodowa/czolgi-abrams-dla-sil-zbrojnych-rp?fbclid=IwAR0JGpqcl02JHXGBBgttnSOSRTwfAZWQlG3QFqhkIAn5TnCkMXbVmQrdplY

 

Huge news, Polish MoD confirms Poland is purchasing M1A2SEPv3's. Tommorow in Wesoła where 1st Armored Brigade is stationed, MoD will present details at 11:00 local time.

Edited by Damian
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