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60 minutes interviews USN pilots who saw a UFO


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1 hour ago, Ivanhoe said:

I'd be a lot happier if we had surveillance systems out there, watching for meteors etc. as well as little green men.

Actually, if we are being watched by a far more ancient galactic civilization, it begs the question.  If a random asteroid was really going to take us out, would they stop it, or let it happen?

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21 hours ago, Ssnake said:

Sorry, you got the numbers (dramatically) wrong, and that changes the picture completely:

There are at least hundreds of planets within a few dozen light years (we haven't yet built the telescopes to identify Earth and Mars sized specimens, so there may actually be thousands more; how many of them are going to be habitable, who knows - but probably more than just one).

The idea is that from the formation of the galaxy, a period of time passed of unknown duration in which life was not possible for whatever reason.  Eventually, when life became possible, we know from our single data point that it can easily take 4 billion years to kick out a space mission.   But eventually, one planet somewhere will have had all the luck, rolled every die roll it needed, and reached their nearest star, and they were first anywhere in this galaxy.  Then, eventually, a second and a third, etc. follow.  But the timescale between the first and second species to go to space might have been 250 million years, then between the second and third let's say 120 million, and so on, with the time between new starfaring species declining in intervals.  Eventually the galaxy reaches a main sequence in which it is producing star faring species at a rate as fast as it ever will.  Let's say one every thousand years.  Then, after the main period the galaxy ages and production falls off, eventually reaching zero again.

So, for a period of let's say maybe 100 million years, the first star faring species to cross the galaxy and back would have had the run of the place.  The idea is this - they will likely have reached the home world of the second galactic star faring species millions of years before no. 2 got into space.  And behind them, thousands, hundreds of thousands, whatever after that, reaching space from different suns over the next billion of years.

Of the hundreds of planets near to us, the odds are far higher that they'd be in our boat - being watched by some objects they don't understand - rather than being the ones that reached us.

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27 minutes ago, glenn239 said:

Actually, if we are being watched by a far more ancient galactic civilization, it begs the question.  If a random asteroid was really going to take us out, would they stop it, or let it happen?

Maybe they would try to tell us, but we would misinterpret the message.

Or they might think it unwise to expose themselves to us (Prime Directive), so they might throw a bunch of smaller rocks at Earth to trigger us into getting serious about planetary defense.

 

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1 hour ago, glenn239 said:

Actually, if we are being watched by a far more ancient galactic civilization, it begs the question.  If a random asteroid was really going to take us out, would they stop it, or let it happen?

They let an asteroid wipe out the dinos so we could replace them.

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21 hours ago, MiloMorai said:

Ancient societies attributed god like attributes to "creatures" from the sky. They also have their creation "myths".

Correct. Which is why you should pay attention to the truth ,which is the Bible ;)

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20 hours ago, Tim the Tank Nut said:

well without getting too theological I am certain that God can be God to other species and there's nothing to say that God doesn't have other projects in the works elsewhere.  There could be another Earth on the far side of the universe that is just now to Adam and Eve and in another direction  world that is past Revelations.

 

In hard science the ability to "slow travel" brings so many difficulties because of time span.  There's no supply and no reinforcements when you are 80 years away from the next outpost.  Jamestown on a galactic scale.  It's fast movers or nothing.

There could be energies that are yet to be discovered but isn't the concept of energy entropy pretty much a sure thing?  If a large percentage of our physics understanding is wrong then maybe lots of things are possible but I just don't see it as likely.

Have to respectfully disagree with the first paragraph due to John 3:16.

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14 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

Maybe they would try to tell us, but we would misinterpret the message.

Or they might think it unwise to expose themselves to us (Prime Directive), so they might throw a bunch of smaller rocks at Earth to trigger us into getting serious about planetary defense.

 

or they wipe us out with rocks before we become a menace:

https://medium.com/@ChemAndCode/the-dark-forest-theory-a-chilling-solution-to-fermis-paradox-c576fc0a7307

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Rick, you may be entirely correct.  I don't know.  God's ways are not man's ways and I often don't understand.  The conditions of the world are enough to rattle one's faith.

On the topic of interstellar travel and distance visitors who had to travel at what I would call slow speeds may have arrived when dinosaurs roamed the Earth and haven't had time to return yet.

If they arrived 3000 years ago what would they have seen?

Again, the ability to travel the distance required would require an understanding of cosmic time and energy that would very likely make the travel itself unnecessary other than as a sightseeing trip.

Stellarium, is a free download than may help give some idea of the distances involved.

Another factor in alien life is atmosphere.  Most stellar bodies do not appear to have the same level of protection against radiation that this one does.  Life may evolve based on elements other than carbon and perhaps not need water but that's a possibility that doesn't seem to lead to space travel.  After all, a tree is "life" but it isn't building any technology or traveling anywhere.

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2 hours ago, Rick said:

Correct. Which is why you should pay attention to the truth ,which is the Bible ;)

The Bible is full of old myths and legends stolen, err incorporated into the Bible, from other ancient societies.

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39 minutes ago, Tim the Tank Nut said:

f they arrived 3000 years ago what would they have seen?

Some seem to think these objects seen in the sky are recent arrivals. Maybe the particular object is but objects in the sky  have been around for 1000s of years.

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2 hours ago, RETAC21 said:

That would already have happened if it were in the cards, and they wouldn't need to be harrassing the US Navy off both coasts, because there are no coasts for the US Navy to be floating in after a small planetoid boils the seas into an orbit out past the Moon.

Edited by glenn239
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3 hours ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

That's right. Let's kill the thread with religious fundamentalism.

It has occurred that if we are being watched, that whoever is doing the watching might have actually recorded all sorts of historical events, as if someday we might actually get to watch the Battle of Zama because it was recorded live.   If so, then other things like the rise of various religions, there might be far more detailed information and recordings somewhere out there than one might have guessed otherwise.

Edited by glenn239
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19 minutes ago, glenn239 said:

That would already have happened if it were in the cards, and they wouldn't need to be harrassing the US Navy off both coasts, because there are no coasts for the US Navy to be floating in after a small planetoid boils the seas into an orbit out past the Moon.

Why? we have barely made ourselves noticed in the last 100 years, much less in the billions of years since Earth was formed. The only man made object that has gone really far is Voyager 1, which is at a distance of 18.7 billion kilometers (125.3 AU) from the sun. Although launched in 1977, it is the only live transmitter and receiver which is that far.

The radio communication system of Voyager 1 was designed to be used up to and beyond the limits of the Solar System. The communication system includes a 3*.7 meters (12 ft) diameter parabolic dish high-gain antenna* to send and receive radio waves via the three Deep Space Network stations on the Earth. Voyager 1 normally transmits data to Earth over Deep Space Network Channel 18, using a frequency of either 2296.481481 MHz or 8420.432097 MHz, while signals from Earth to Voyager are broadcast at 2114.676697 MHz. As of 2013, signals from Voyager 1 take over 17 hours to reach Earth.

We are still a "dead" world to the rest of the Galaxy

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If the whole quantum entanglement thing works, couldn't a far flung galactic star nation communicate at great distances? 

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22 minutes ago, glenn239 said:

It has occurred that if we are being watched, that whoever is doing the watching might have actually recorded all sorts of historical events, as if someday we might actually get to watch the Battle of Zama because it was recorded live.   If so, then other things like the rise of various religions, there might be far more detailed information and recordings somewhere out there than one might have guessed otherwise.

Yeah, but like Rick explained, we don't need any recordings, because Bible. Case closed. 😜

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1 minute ago, rmgill said:

If the whole quantum entanglement thing works, couldn't a far flung galactic star nation communicate at great distances? 

yes, but, the particle still needs to travel to the destination. Top speed is still light speed.

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Well, yes, but a civilization expanding across interstellar space with generation ships traveling at fractional speeds could still thus communicate and coordinate activities. 

Edited by rmgill
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1 hour ago, rmgill said:

If the whole quantum entanglement thing works, couldn't a far flung galactic star nation communicate at great distances? 

I wonder.  Could you build a pair of devices each which holds half of the million or billion quantumly engangled pairs of particles, and communicate instanteously over long distances by the patterns in which the particles in each device lose their quantum state?  

Edited by glenn239
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2 hours ago, RETAC21 said:

Why? we have barely made ourselves noticed in the last 100 years, much less in the billions of years since Earth was formed. The only man made object that has gone really far is Voyager 1, which is at a distance of 18.7 billion kilometers (125.3 AU) from the sun. Although launched in 1977, it is the only live transmitter and receiver which is that far.

I picture the galaxy like being a bit like the Boston Marathon. 

Each racer in this marathon is another star faring species that the galaxy will eventually produce over the course of its lifetime.  The Boston Marathon is maybe 12 hours long, from when the first runner crosses the start line to when the last runner crosses the finish line.  Whatever.  Let's say this Boston Marathon has 20,000 racers in it and it's 12 hours, with each racer being another star faring species produced by the galaxy, (20,000 in total) and each time a racer crosses the start line, life on that planet has started, and when they cross the finish line, this is when their species had their "Neil Armstrong" moment.

So, each hour of this marathon is a billion years, 12 hours, 12 billion years in total.  For the first 4 hours, 4 billion years, no racer crosses the finish line because they have to run the course and that must take at last 4 hours.  Then, the first racer crosses, and behind them are the other 19,999 racers.  Here's the trick, the important part.  When the first racer crosses the line, the second place finisher might be 2 minutes behind.  A short for Boston runners, but in this marathon, 2 minutes is 3,000,000 years.    The distance from the first place finisher's home world to the 2nd place runner is maybe 40,000 light years.  So, the first place runner can get to the 2nd place finisher's homeworld maybe 2,500,000 million years before the 2nd place finisher crosses the finish line.

The other racers are all strung out behind, but there will be a timeframe, let's call it 5-7 hours into the race, where let's say 15,000 of the 20,000 in the race will cross the line.  That's the main sequence.  We know nothing about this race, so we have to assume we are the average result.  Pick a Boston Marathon and look at where the middle of the pack finished.  Average luck, that's us.

So the answer to your question is, what did the first runner choose to do after they crossed the finish line?  The second place finisher is still 2 minutes behind - 3 million years, so they're just crossing some intelligence threshold with a long way to go.  They could do one of three things.  (a) Do nothing, (just sit there on their own home world and let the galaxy go by), (b) Total or Selective Annihilation (hunt all the others in the marathon down and vaporize or quarantine their worlds long before they became star faring), or  (c) watch some or all of them, (d) share their technology and help them along.

I think we can rule out (b) because we're still here.  (d) cannot be the case because it hasn't happened.  If these UFO's are real, we can rule out (a).  That leaves (c).  So, the answer to your question is that the reason why they found us before they could detect our broadcasts is because we're halfway back the pack of runners, a full billion years after they went starfaring.  They found us and started to track our planet before the dinosaurs walked the Earth.

Edited by glenn239
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Thought; if early episodes of Keeping Up With The Kardashians have propagated to a receiver operated by ET, the Big One may already be headed our way.

 

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6 minutes ago, glenn239 said:

I picture the galaxy like being a bit like the Boston Marathon. 

Each racer in this marathon is another star faring species that the galaxy will eventually produce over the course of its lifetime.  The Boston Marathon is maybe 12 hours long, from when the first runner crosses the start line to when the last runner crosses the finish line.  Whatever.  Let's say this Boston Marathon has 20,000 racers in it and it's 12 hours, with each racer being another star faring species produced by the galaxy, (20,000 in total) and each time a racer crosses the start line, life on that planet has started, and when they cross the finish line, this is when their species had their "Neil Armstrong" moment.

So, each hour of this marathon is a billion years, 12 hours, 12 billion years in total.  For the first 4 hours, 4 billion years, no racer crosses the finish line because they have to run the course and that must take at last 4 hours.  Then, the first racer crosses, and behind them are the other 19,999 racers.  Here's the trick, the important part.  When the first racer crosses the line, the second place finisher might be 2 minutes behind.  A short for Boston runners, but in this marathon, 2 minutes is 300,000,000 years.    The distance from the first place finisher's home world to the 2nd place runner is maybe 40,000 light years.  So, the first place runner can get to the 2nd place finisher's homeworld maybe 299,000,000 million years before the 2nd place finisher crosses the finish line.

The other racers are all strung out behind, but there will be a timeframe, let's call it 5-7 hours into the race, where let's say 15,000 of the 20,000 in the race will cross the line.  That's the main sequence.  We know nothing about this race, so we have to assume we are the average result.  Pick a Boston Marathon and look at where the middle of the pack finished.  Average luck, that's us.

So the answer to your question is, what did the first runner choose to do after they crossed the finish line?  The second place finisher is still 2 minutes behind - 300 million years, so they're not even sentient yet.  They could do one of three things.  (a) Do nothing, (just sit there on their own home world and let the galaxy go by), (b) Total or Selective Annihilation (hunt all the others in the marathon down and vaporize or quarantine their worlds long before they became star faring), or  (c) watch some or all of them.

I think we can rule out (b) because we're still here.  If these UFO's are real, we can rule out (a).  That leaves (c).  So, the answer to your question is that the reason why they found us before they could detect our broadcasts is because we're halfway back the pack of runners, a full billion years after they went starfaring.  They found us and started to track our planet before the dinosaurs walked the Earth.

This is all bullshit, to be polite. To use you analogy, one race may be running next year's marathon and another the marathon that was run 20 years ago, and most of the runners will be dead before they reach the first meter anyway.

Go back to the statistics on biology on this planet: billions of species, just one with intelligence enough to leave it. The next intelligent species may develop elsewhere in a billion years and the previous one may be extinct a billion years ago. I we are going to find signs of intelligent life, the most likely encounter will be one by archeologists

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2 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

Thought; if early episodes of Keeping Up With The Kardashians have propagated to a receiver operated by ET, the Big One may already be headed our way.

 

I dunno, I wonder if watching Earth television is what has been convincing the Venusians to give us a wide berth.

 

2 hours ago, RETAC21 said:

This is all bullshit, to be polite. To use you analogy, one race may be running next year's marathon and another the marathon that was run 20 years ago, and most of the runners will be dead before they reach the first meter anyway.

Go back to the statistics on biology on this planet: billions of species, just one with intelligence enough to leave it. The next intelligent species may develop elsewhere in a billion years and the previous one may be extinct a billion years ago. I we are going to find signs of intelligent life, the most likely encounter will be one by archeologists

There was a very good Arthur C Clarke story, 'The Star', that makes just this point. 

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