Stuart Galbraith Posted March 15, 2022 Author Share Posted March 15, 2022 2 hours ago, Argus said: Laird's being the obvious candidate - frankly I suspect they are. Sensitive as it all is politically, I think the MoD has to break Scotland's (almost) monopoly on ship supply purely on the basis of capacity. Sctostoun and Rosyth between them just can't get hulls in the water (and fitted out) fast enough, and looked at from that perspective it seems like both sides have been working around to getting Cammell Laird's back into the warship game for the last decade. As in from the RN's end, maintenance, repair, modules and Boaty McAttenbrough to crown it off, is rebuilding the relationship and proving capacity. From CL/NS&S/PeelPorts perspective it's about seeing HMG is serious and committed to a long term relationship worth investing in. Particularly as the Scots gave their contract to build their ferries to a Turkish yard. Yes, they couldnt even throw English yards a bone. That was after spectacularly mismanaging a yard they had intended would build them in Scotland. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-60706915 On a related note, the Governments national shipbuilding strategy got released the other day. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/refresh-to-the-national-shipbuilding-strategy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 In fairness it doesn't look like anyone in the UK reached the final round of tenders, and IIRC Laird's built a ferry for the isles a few years back. I fear for the strategy, based on the last 80 years, the best thing HMG can do for any industry is get the hell out of its way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 18, 2022 Author Share Posted March 18, 2022 Well they are very good at that of course, which is why we have very little AFV production capacity left in the UK, and what we have seems to be building AFV's that dont work. The problem is not that they are all over the problem, or that they show complete disinterest. Its just by turns they seem to do both, at precisely the wrong moments. Look at the near complete destruction of Britains civil aviation production through precisely the same methodology. France doesnt seem to have this problem. It would be nice if we could go around Europe learning lessons rather than insisting on applying pure free market ideology or Socialism on everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 On 3/9/2022 at 12:09 PM, lucklucky said: We are in digital world, it is not impediment that a sensor in any other asset like an AWACS detects sea skimming and gives targeting information to the ship, then Aster can hit a target 100km over the horizon at very low level. RAF has all of 3 AWACs platforms. Realistically the RN will operating with organic assets unless its paired with the USN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 5 hours ago, Josh said: RAF has all of 3 AWACs platforms. Realistically the RN will operating with organic assets unless its paired with the USN. The RN have had seagoing AWAC since the Falkland's, the current incarnation is Merlin Crowsnest, which is the Crowsnest radar system hung on a Merlin helicopter, entered service march last year IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrustMe Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 18 hours ago, Argus said: The RN have had seagoing AWAC since the Falkland's, the current incarnation is Merlin Crowsnest, which is the Crowsnest radar system hung on a Merlin helicopter, entered service march last year IIRC. The Crowsnest AEW is obsolete even before it gets installed on the Merlins's as it's not AESA. It's based on old 1980's technology. Our AWACS are now so old and broken down that they hardly fly, that's why were buying a new platform (yet to be decided) from the US Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 19, 2022 Author Share Posted March 19, 2022 (edited) E7 wedgetail. https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/wedgetail-to-be-rafs-new-early-warning-radar-aircraft/ The crowsnest is due to be replaced in 10 years by a Catobar launched drone called Vixen. They really want the Merlins back to convert to carrier ASW. https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/what-will-the-royal-navys-new-vixen-jets-look-like/ Edited March 19, 2022 by Stuart Galbraith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrustMe Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 15 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said: E7 wedgetail. https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/wedgetail-to-be-rafs-new-early-warning-radar-aircraft/ Nice one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 On 3/20/2022 at 3:34 AM, TrustMe said: The Crowsnest AEW is obsolete even before it gets installed on the Merlins's as it's not AESA. It's based on old 1980's technology. Our AWACS are now so old and broken down that they hardly fly, that's why were buying a new platform (yet to be decided) from the US In a one eyed kingdom the blind are still at a disadvantage, Crowsnest is something and better than nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted July 21, 2022 Author Share Posted July 21, 2022 And unsurprisingly it loo!s like we are doubling down on Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R E lee Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 5 new type 26 announced to be built today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted November 15, 2022 Author Share Posted November 15, 2022 Nice looking ships, they have a kind of stealthy Type 21 look to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R E lee Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/order-placed-for-five-more-type-26-frigates-on-the-clyde/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike1158 Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 5 hours ago, R E lee said: 5 new type 26 announced to be built today. Wow, I knew consrtuction was faster with new techniques but they must have some great superglue. Having looked at the Vixen, they intend that as an AEWC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R E lee Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 11 minutes ago, Mike1158 said: Wow, I knew consrtuction was faster with new techniques but they must have some great superglue. Having looked at the Vixen, they intend that as an AEWC? https://www.navylookout.com/cats-traps-and-uas-the-royal-navy-considers-options-for-carrier-launched-drones/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike1158 Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 The saga of the carriers continues. Decisions, choices, blah blah blah....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanhoe Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 On 11/9/2022 at 10:41 PM, Colin said: About the same size as a Burke, with much smaller complement. I'm a bit skeptical about the modular bay stuff. Interesting that the planned helo is a medium-sized trash hauler, which seems to imply the UAVs are surface warfare. Which is probably an inevitable trend. 3 or 4 drones orbiting the mother ship at near-OTH radius can detect aggressors better than a single manned helo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted November 15, 2022 Author Share Posted November 15, 2022 2 hours ago, R E lee said: https://www.navylookout.com/cats-traps-and-uas-the-royal-navy-considers-options-for-carrier-launched-drones/ Thats the plan. And in fact they have to have some alternative stand up in 10 years, because Merlin Crowsnest is going away. They need the Helicopters converted to ASW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Are these things being another example of "fitted for but not with" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 39 minutes ago, Sardaukar said: Are these things being another example of "fitted for but not with" ? I think that there's likely to be a bit less of that. Instead, the trend has been to buy fewer systems than hulls and tranship them during the refit cycle so that for example the sonar gets unbolted from one coming in for a refit and is dropped into one coming out of refit. I imagine that the ship designs are "modular" to an extent to make that a less painful process than it might have been in the past. However, the other thing that is done is not shrink-wrapping the hull design around the systems that are part of the IOC equipment fit - like the space take for mk41 silos on the Type 45 - which allows broader options for refits. BTW, these 5 ships are simply confirmation of the second batch - the original planning was for 8 - so they're not "new" new, they're just not cancelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R011 Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 9 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said: Nice looking ships, they have a kind of stealthy Type 21 look to them. The cone shaped thing on top looks odd. If I live long enough for the various T-26s to enter service, I'll probably get used to it. Now, all we need are a few more design changes, some shipyard delays, a budget crunch reducing and extending the buy, another decade or so added to the estimate, and a few tens of billions of dollars more and we can have fifteen twelve eight new warships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 10 minutes ago, R011 said: The cone shaped thing on top looks odd. If I live long enough for the various T-26s to enter service, I'll probably get used to it. Now, all we need are a few more design changes, some shipyard delays, a budget crunch reducing and extending the buy, another decade or so added to the estimate, and a few tens of billions of dollars more and we can have fifteen twelve eight new warships. I can see you are bit of realist in your view of your procurement system.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike1158 Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 You need to alter that to four to be realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucklucky Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 4 hours ago, Ivanhoe said: About the same size as a Burke, with much smaller complement. I'm a bit skeptical about the modular bay stuff. Interesting that the planned helo is a medium-sized trash hauler, which seems to imply the UAVs are surface warfare. Which is probably an inevitable trend. 3 or 4 drones orbiting the mother ship at near-OTH radius can detect aggressors better than a single manned helo. Type 26 has a bad hangar configuration imo. It has only one medium helicopter hangar, And 2 small doors at side for USV's. They should have made a full size hangar for 2 helicopters, or large heli drone and the USV should have moved to the "modular" space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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