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Any available shotgun should be fine, and intermediate choke and anywhere from 7.5 to 9 shot should work at the ranges described, while offering the advantage of limiting the danger space downrange.  I don't see much need to go more than trap loads, the drones I've examined are all light weight uber alles and blades and optics getting peppered with lead pinholes will put them down just as effectively as blasting them apart. 

Assuming some drones have been captured, a quick down and dirty testing with the intended gun and loads will give a quick idea of your engagement envelope.  S/F....Ken M 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Your concept of usage isn't clear - you talk about banned airspace for the drones but want something that is easily man-portable and requires minimal training, which implies ad-hoc use, rather than specially purposed controlled airspace. Or maybe your customer bans drone use generally in urban areas or something?

If you want to stop them delivering drugs into prisons, use a fixed location jammer and/or DF them first to take the controller out, and the same with protest management/riot control duties - you've got vehicles for mounting and power, so adapt them. yeah, it will mean that various consumer gear stops working whilst you're jamming, but that's tough luck.

As for lethality, commercial drones aren't exactly hard targets, with moulded plastic skins and in particular very flimsy rotors. You're not going to need 4mm tungsten fragments to take out a DJI Mavic, for example. Shotguns are only going to push them back a bit, though - they can definitely gather intel at longer ranges than you can shoot pellets.

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It's for border force police to shoot down drones used by smuggling cartels to track and surveil. There is a drone ban in the area but criminals don't follow laws.

There is no money for detection and jamming infrastructure. Most of the areas covered are highly remote and don't even have power supply.

Right now the drones can literally fly close enough to read insignia and they can do nothing. They don't even need prosumer.

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I see, that makes sense.

Any reliable semi-auto that can fire a large load of small shot to circa 30-50m sounds reasonable.

I don't own a consumer drone, so I can't tell what materials they're made from but I would expect ABS or nylon with a little glass loading and probably nothing much thicker than 2mm. Easy enough to test which weight of shot you'd need at a range without having to actually buy more than one or two drones to measure the materials in the first place.

After that, well, the border patrol will have to learn to shoot straight, because if you've got no automation then that's all you have left.

 

Maybe training with clays and hand-traps is cheap enough, and quite good fun, too. (Skeet shooting has already been mentioned for training I think.)

This isn't a problem that needs a MIC solution.

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14 hours ago, Simon Tan said:

It's for border force police to shoot down drones used by smuggling cartels to track and surveil. There is a drone ban in the area but criminals don't follow laws.

There is no money for detection and jamming infrastructure. Most of the areas covered are highly remote and don't even have power supply.

Right now the drones can literally fly close enough to read insignia and they can do nothing. They don't even need prosumer.

Is this an extant current issue in your AO? You're not speaking hypothetically then. 

Are you trying to sort out ammo. If it would help.....hmm. What are the ITAR issues with exporting shotgun ammo....?
 

Edited by rmgill
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Yes. it is. No I am not. Sonsofbitches are pushing all that expensive shit that the country cannot afford. So instead we have NO COUNTERMEASURES. 

Ammo can be managed but our standard birdshot is 2 3/4 No. 8. Without flight control. 

And the powers that be just don't understand that cheap n gud is better than exorbitant and nonexistent.

A proof of concept is what is being pieced together. The shotty needs to be usable both for drone busting and as a primary long gun. And training is more easily supported if tied into competition like practical shotty and IPSC. We cant do 3 gun, centerfire long guns are nonexistent outside of .gov.

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7 hours ago, Simon Tan said:

Drones don't see much at night. Illum is generally not available. We barely issue weaponlights.

Laser pointers to softkill the cameras? at least they are cheap and abundant

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Just get a Benelli Nova Tactical, with the ghostring sights, throw the mercury recoil buffer assembly in the stock, if you have the $ for it, and go to town.  The 3.5inch chamber might come in handy for beanbag or baton rounds someday.  S/F....Ken M

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On 4/18/2021 at 10:28 PM, Simon Tan said:

 

A proof of concept is what is being pieced together. The shotty needs to be usable both for drone busting and as a primary long gun. And training is more easily supported if tied into competition like practical shotty and IPSC. We cant do 3 gun, centerfire long guns are nonexistent outside of .gov.

The problem there is that a good shotgun for tight pattern at range will be a long barrel and suboptimal for 2 legged folks. With a choke it will either be bad for slugs or incapable. 
 

You might go with 20 gauge anti drone and 12 for 2 legged. Hard to mix up slugs and 00 on the tight choked shotgun there. 20 gauge will be lighter for smaller stature folks too. 
 

And seriously, you helped us out with the Range time at PFT. If there's something I can do on this end, let me know.  I figure I owe you. Heck I have a buddy who's a retired cop who used to shoot skeet and trap competitively and I suspect he'd be down for some consulting. 
 

 

Edited by rmgill
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True. I am trying to think simple. 
 

My hurdle is drones for testing. Easy to get a selection of drones for testing. And we can try a range of available loads here in the us. I wonder if I could get a buddy tO make up drones with an armored body to protect vitals and just see about airframe damage as a single objective focus for comparing loads. 

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Ok. Spoke to my Cop/Skeet/Trap buddy. 

He suggested 7 1/2 Shot, High brass (More powder) and extra full chokes on a gun with a 20" or longer barrel. 

Clay shooting methods should be good for this on the ranges typically. 

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Working on the ammunition issue. Getting anything from US is impossible at this time so we are looking at Turkey/European etc. Right now Russia is out because our banks are terrified of being sanctioned.

The shotty does not have to just have one loading and a 3" #7.5 bird choked up is going to be quite bad for your day.

If you want to shoot up some drones, I would suggest shooting up cheapo ones to see what the main kill mech. It's monetable creative content FWIW.

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Well, start with clay loads you might have in region. That'd be the first step. 

If you want me to play with examples of patterns and chokes, write up some specs and I'll see what I can do. I figure a drone image/outline at X Distance would be a useful patterning demonstration for a given load. 

As for guns for specific tasks, I was thinking of the issue of trying to do door entry with a 20 in barrel on a gun optimized for clay shooting. 

Certainly, such a gun will do interesting things to someone, but for people work you usually want bigger pellets. Depending on body size, small pellets will crater and not be very good for sufficient injury to stop a threat. ie the wound will be ghastly, but not into vitals with sufficient energy. 

 

Edited by rmgill
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The persons needing this do not kick doors as their main remit. Mostly patrolling jungly borders etc. The shotty can load buck for anti vermin tasks. The shotty guy will need more training anyway, 

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On 4/18/2021 at 8:28 PM, Simon Tan said:

 

A proof of concept is what is being pieced together. The shotty needs to be usable both for drone busting and as a primary long gun. And training is more easily supported if tied into competition like practical shotty and IPSC. We cant do 3 gun, centerfire long guns are nonexistent outside of .gov.

 

Well I can attest to my KSG 14. Only gun I can think of off hand that has 2 ammo tubes, 7 for slugs and 7 for drone shot.  I use an Olight rechargeable light, at night it is basically your aiming device.  Daytime it has one of those open sight triangle things I am not super fond of.  Not sure the availability there.   

 

There are 2 ways to skin a cat though, counter surveillance with your own drone system might be a great option.  There are some very affordable drones that with some practice could lead to trailing the offending smugglers back to their hide hole.  When they fly their drone back to its take off point return the favor.  Get pictures, follow them as far as range allows when they bug out, maybe drop something on them like a marker paint bomb.  Im guessing dropping grenades is not in the play book....  

 

Skynet Ammo

 

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4 minutes ago, Samson said:

Kind of bummed the fuel truck didnt go up, cant lie.  Thats a beefy drone!  3 60MM rounds?

This is what it was noted, but I do not know for sure.

video was released showing a couple more wrapped VOG-17[M] and a Chinese Type 69 HEI-AP bounding projectile (MJ-7 marked fuze) being dropped on a TSK target. Likely only property damage, but a development to watch if larger projectiles continue to be dropped.

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3 hours ago, Mistral said:

Kurds doing some harasment bombing with one

 

B-52s it ain't... could be countered with ECM if the Turks think it menacing enough

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