Gavin-Phillips Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 I've been browsing youtube more regularly than usual as of late and some really interesting videos have been turning up. One of the more interesting ones is this: Afghanistan 1979 documentary Brilliant narration there! Anyway the comment made concerning the AGS-17 automatic grenade launcher made me wonder if these were installed in the field by AFV crews or if these were depot-level upgrades or perhaps a mix of both? I have never actually seen how they were mounted on BTR's or BMP's apart from the much more recent BTR vehicles (BTR-3 I think?) where the AGL is incorporated as part of a modular armament system alongside a 30mm cannon. Was the Afghan War the first recorded use of the AGS-17? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETAC21 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 "A war to prevent the spread of islamic fundamentalism" WUT???? No, a war to put the correct puppet in the Afghan communist goverment that then went off rails! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 There is a really great book from Osprey out at the moment about the 'coup' to remove Amin, 'Storm 333'. Its really worth getting. 11 hours ago, Gavin-Phillips said: I've been browsing youtube more regularly than usual as of late and some really interesting videos have been turning up. One of the more interesting ones is this: Afghanistan 1979 documentary Brilliant narration there! Anyway the comment made concerning the AGS-17 automatic grenade launcher made me wonder if these were installed in the field by AFV crews or if these were depot-level upgrades or perhaps a mix of both? I have never actually seen how they were mounted on BTR's or BMP's apart from the much more recent BTR vehicles (BTR-3 I think?) where the AGL is incorporated as part of a modular armament system alongside a 30mm cannon. Was the Afghan War the first recorded use of the AGS-17? Thanks. Ive always heard it was frontline workshops that put them on. That doesnt mean its true, but that was the narrative. David Isby claims that the AGS-17 was a Soviet rework of an American design that was captured in vietnam (Im not sure what one, possibly the one mounted in the nose of Huey gunships?). So yes, I think this would have been the first use of it in combat. Ive personally never read of them using them in 1973. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 4 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said: ...Ive always heard it was frontline workshops that put them on. That doesnt mean its true, but that was the narrative. Mostly true, but there were purpose-built BMP-1PG that had AG-17 (AGS-17 is tripod mounted version) integrated. Small series (probably less than 100) was made in the late '70s and those were last BMP-1s produced before production switched to BMP-2. Quote David Isby claims that the AGS-17 was a Soviet rework of an American design that was captured in vietnam No, development started in early '60s, with first concept drawings dating before that, from 1959. Development was initially with low priority, but increased priority since 1965-66, it was finished in April 1968., accepted to army service in 1971. and production started in early 1972. Again, no point in the '70/80s western fairy-tales about Soviet weapons origins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Well I did put in the caveat it was David Isby, he is very good except when he isnt. The PG is interesting. As you likely know they have just mounted a grenade launcher on the Turret of the BMP-2M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin-Phillips Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 8 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said: There is a really great book from Osprey out at the moment about the 'coup' to remove Amin, 'Storm 333'. Its really worth getting. Ive always heard it was frontline workshops that put them on. That doesnt mean its true, but that was the narrative. David Isby claims that the AGS-17 was a Soviet rework of an American design that was captured in vietnam (Im not sure what one, possibly the one mounted in the nose of Huey gunships?). So yes, I think this would have been the first use of it in combat. Ive personally never read of them using them in 1973. There are quite a few books on the Osprey publishing website that I am keen to eventually get my hands on, Storm-333 is certainly one of them with the General Military having a book dedicated to none other than the T-62, so that's another book of interest as far as I am concerned. Without getting political or anything else for that matter, it seems that the line of "well it was an American/British idea first" is an often-used thing. I think people seem to forget that Russia has its own design bureaus and engineers as well. Sadly I guess its one of those so-called "facts" that will never go away. The BMP-1PG is also not a variant I have heard about before. I have heard that the AG-17 was used on both vehicles but the designation is unfamiliar to me. Very interesting. I hope that Osprey do a dedicated book on the early BMP (or even BMD variants) and perhaps I'll learn alot more about these iconic IFV's. Thanks everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Is love any decent English language book on the BMD. I'm in love with the BMD4 at the moment. What a completely bonkers impressive bit of kit that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin-Phillips Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said: Is love any decent English language book on the BMD. I'm in love with the BMD4 at the moment. What a completely bonkers impressive bit of kit that is. I just find the whole development of the Soviet/Russian airborne armour a really fascinating topic, even just considering the earlier BMD's, the 2S9 Nona-S and the even earlier ASU-57 and ASU-85. While there are quite a few books now (in English) covering the Soviet airborne forces in various levels of details, I haven't seen anything yet which concentrates on their armoured vehicles. I have suggested it as a future topic on Osprey's website. Well....you never know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptLuke Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 The AGS-17 crops up quite a bit in The Bear Went Over The Mountain: Soviet Combat Tactics In Afghanistan by Grau and Glantz, though there is no explicit discussion of whether these were vehicle mounted at factory/depot level, field expedient vehicle mounted, or just tripod mounted. Most of the book is based off of Soviet after action reports so presumably knowledge of Soviet organization and equipment was assumed. There are a lot of references to AGS-17 platoons, often dispersed to add firepower to specific units for specific tasks with 1 or 2 AGS-17 or an "AGS-17 squad" There was apparently a lot of use of AGS-17s by dismounts, even on operations that required foot marches There's a reference to a BTR-D mounting the AGS-17 and this: "The machine gun/grenade-launcher platoon was the fourth platoon of a motorized rifle company and provided suppressive fire from PKS or Utes machine guns and AGS-17 automatic grenade launchers. This platoon disappeared during force reorganization in the mid-1980s." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 There was a grenade launcher platoon used in Storm 333. I think the VDV were in love with them even before Afghanistan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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