Stuart Galbraith Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56477900 The size of the Army is to be reduced to 72,500 soldiers by 2025 as part of a move towards drones and cyber warfare. Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said "increased deployability and technological advantage" meant greater effect could be delivered by fewer people. He set out plans for new capabilities such as electronic warfare and drones in the Commons. Labour has warned that "size matters" when it comes to defence. Announcing a major overhaul of the armed forces, Mr Wallace said it marked a shift from "mass mobilisation to information age speed", insisting they must be able to "seek out and understand" new threats to the country's security. He said the government was increasing the UK defence spending by £24bn over the next four years. Mr Wallace said it was tempting to use the "shield of sentimentality" to protect "outdated capabilities" but doing so would put lives at risk. The Army currently has 76,500 personnel and has not been at its "established strength" of 82,000 troops since the middle of the last decade, Mr Wallace said. "These changes will not require redundancies and we wish to build on the work already done on utilising our reserves to make sure the whole force is better integrated and more productive," he said. Shadow defence secretary John Healey warned that while "threats to Britain are increasing" the plan was for "fewer troops, fewer ships, fewer planes, over the next few years". Not a bad one, most of the troops lost are not actually there, the Army gets 148 Challenger 3's, and they are committing to buy more that 48 F35s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahawk Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Well thought out decision. It keeps the forces modern, networked and deployable, while the increased number of atomic weapons provides Britain with more security. It surely will make the UK the most advanced and powerful nation in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 It's been a tough balancing act, and I don't like offloading infantry. Otoh, it's the best thought out defence review in years. This one really needs to work out too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 Full report is here. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/defence-in-a-competitive-age/defence-in-a-competitive-age-accessible-version Interesting line I noticed, talk about maintaining stores in Germany, to support operations in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawes Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Looks like all the C-130's are going away. If the situation should arise (probably involving Special Operations) where a C-130 is the only practical option, presumably the USAF will lend a hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alejandro_ Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Looks like all the C-130's are going away. IMO this is a mistake. Those J Hercules should have plenty of life left. Now the A400M will be the "smallest" transport aircraft left, in a time when European countries are considering a potential A200M because A400M is too big for many missions. Also, many countries have found their Air Force transport aircraft very handy during this pandemic and are going to invest in it. I guess you can apply to joint programs like NATO lift or ATARES, but not the same as having your own aircraft. https://eatc-mil.com/en/what-we-do/atares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJ Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Number of F-35s hasn't been determined. I guess it'll be around 80 by the end of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 9 hours ago, Dawes said: Looks like all the C-130's are going away. If the situation should arise (probably involving Special Operations) where a C-130 is the only practical option, presumably the USAF will lend a hand? 9 hours ago, alejandro_ said: Looks like all the C-130's are going away. IMO this is a mistake. Those J Hercules should have plenty of life left. Now the A400M will be the "smallest" transport aircraft left, in a time when European countries are considering a potential A200M because A400M is too big for many missions. Also, many countries have found their Air Force transport aircraft very handy during this pandemic and are going to invest in it. I guess you can apply to joint programs like NATO lift or ATARES, but not the same as having your own aircraft. https://eatc-mil.com/en/what-we-do/atares It is ironic that at the very time the Europeans are buying C-130's because of their small field capability, we are getting rid of ours and making do with the A400 and C17. I dont know, it strikes me that the C17 has a rough field capablity. it can clearly fulfill that role if we need it to, even if currently we choose not to. Yes, its unfortunate we are getting rid of Fat Albert, but to be honest im not buying there are many strips an A400 cant get into. And if it cant,there is always airdropping or HALO. And of course, unlike Germany or France, we have Chinooks. We are actually talking about retiring the older ones (farewell Bravo November) and buying new ones. I can only hope that wont be a screwed up procurement again.... Interesting thing, I was watching Freedar last night, and watched an V22 Osprey fly out of Mildenhall and undertake an apparent low level exercise on Salisbury plain, apparently closely observed by an RAF King Air Shadow R1. I idly wonder if there was any connection..... 8 hours ago, JasonJ said: Number of F-35s hasn't been determined. I guess it'll be around 80 by the end of it. Yeah, there was much criticism 'You are stopping the buy at 48!'. But it seems to be a nuanced 'We wont stop at 48, we will keep buying until we find a number we are comfortable with'. So yes, im expecting enough to fill out both ships and a small attrition reserve, so its probably going to be upwards of 72. Ultimately I guess it depends on what state the UK economy is going to be in the next 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 UK C-130j and -30 are pushing past 21 years old. RAF usage rates per year tend to be higher than US rates so it's quite possible that these are close to being worn out. With an ooS date in 2023, best case would be new money for a new buy, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 I'll miss them We used to see them all the time when Lyneham was open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucklucky Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Maybe get a C27J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrustMe Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 11 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said: Course, unlike Germany or France, we have Chinooks. We are actually talking about retiring the older ones (farewell Bravo November) and buying new ones. I can only hope that wont be a screwed up procurement again.... There was talk of getting the special forces MH47g version but these are really expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 If we are going down the rotary wing road, I think we may as well get a small fleet of V22s. Not that I've any issue with Chinooks, but it showed it's limitations as long ago as Bravo 2 Zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucklucky Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Yeah i think UK unfortunately thinks that the helicopter days are "passé" and wants something fancy costing 5x more and being 10x more expensive in use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrustMe Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 51 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said: If we are going down the rotary wing road, I think we may as well get a small fleet of V22s. Not that I've any issue with Chinooks, but it showed it's limitations as long ago as Bravo 2 Zero. The V22 are a flawed design. Sure it can fly much faster than todays helicopters and have a much bigger range but they lack defensive weapons. The V22's can only have a machine gun on the rear rap whilst the M47g can mount two machine guns and two mini guns to port and starboard. BAe systems was chosen to develop a unmanned weapon station in a turret under the fuselage to provide 360 degree firepower but it never worked right and the contract was cancelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, TrustMe said: The V22 are a flawed design. Sure it can fly much faster than todays helicopters and have a much bigger range but they lack defensive weapons. The V22's can only have a machine gun on the rear rap whilst the M47g can mount two machine guns and two mini guns to port and starboard. BAe systems was chosen to develop a unmanned weapon station in a turret under the fuselage to provide 360 degree firepower but it never worked right and the contract was cancelled. But it has the range, particularly with mid air refuelling, to fly around the high threat areas, invaluable in the middle east. I love the Chinook, I'm it's greatest cheerleader. But it's noisy, it's big, it's slow, and costs so much the RAF won't risk them in high threat environments. I'll grant you that V22 isn't perfect either, but anything fulfilling the SOF role is going to be a compromise. Edited March 24, 2021 by Stuart Galbraith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawes Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 I think the Treasury would recoil in horror at the price of a V-22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 25, 2021 Author Share Posted March 25, 2021 The Special Forces generally have a blank cheque to get the things they want, whether its assault rifles or communications kit. They were using for years an A109 that had been captured in the Falklands for example. The SAS have at least one Dauphin helicopter they used during the London Bridge attack in 2017. The nickname (if its not a tabloid invention) is Blue Thunder. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-blue-thunder-sas-crack-10561106 Granted thats a different matter for something the size of a V22, but you have to question whether they really need a full squadron. A flight would probably suffice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawes Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 I'd like to see a joint USAF/RAF V-22 unit, but that's probably more suited to a SOF-themed novel or TV series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 26, 2021 Author Share Posted March 26, 2021 Yeah, there would be never ending arguments about when the bar opens, and whether they get to watch the superbowl or the cricket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawes Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 But think of all the national holidays that the unit would get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 26, 2021 Author Share Posted March 26, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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