Why would Trump pardon himself?

[Josh]

2 minutes ago, rmgill said:

Because a former Governor could never be attacked and charged for made up shite after the fact if that becomes a routine method.

 

True that, look at the current governor of Georgia suffering made up attacks as we speak.

[Ssnake]

11 hours ago, glenn239 said:

September 2021 for "most" Canadians.  

And that'll be the same in pretty much all European countries, or the US. Vaccinating 70% of the whole population is a time-consuming process. Let's say a doctor needs, on average, 10 minutes per patient. 6 patients per hour, 60 patients per day, 350 per week, or 9,100 within half a year. Oh, well, let's take out the lunch break, and we reach 10,000.

Population in the EU: 500 million x 70% = 350M vaccinations (make that 700, if you need two shots per patient)

Population in the US: 330 million x 70% = 231M syringe applications (462, see above)

So, Europe would need 35,000 doctors to work on nothing else but vaccinations for half a year to apply ONE shot; make that 70,000 for a two-shot treatment. Not every doctor will work at peak efficiency, and it may not be permissible to let anyone but an approbated medical doctor give the shots, so even with the first vaccinations starting in late December it'll be May or June before you approach the 50% of the whole population threshold (because it's 71.4% of the entire work). And all that assumes that the population is willingly streaming into the vaccination centers and clinics. Which may not be a realistic expectation after all, given how "reasonable" a sizable fraction of the population behaved in the past six months.

[MiloMorai]

Looks like Rudy G is trying to get a pre-pardon. There is also talk of Eric, Don jr, Ivanka and Jared also getting pre-pardons. NY Times also writing about pay for pardon by someone. Now why would that be?

Thanks Ssnake, saved me some typing.

[Stefan Fredriksson]

In Sweden nurses do the physical vaccination.

Patient fills in a form, ascertains he/she is in good shape. A doctor may be consulted if need be. But the stabbing is done by nurses.

[sunday]

7 minutes ago, Stefan Fredriksson said:

In Sweden nurses do the physical vaccination.

Patient fills in a form, ascertains he/she is in good shape. A doctor may be consulted if need be. But the stabbing is done by nurses.

Here in Spain also.

[glenn239]

13 hours ago, Josh said:

Or it is possible that Trump is actually guilty of shady business practices, as he eminently seems to be and probably has been for decades. In which case the court has to come up with a constitutional argument as to why as a non sitting president he should be absolved of said crimes.

New York wouldn't have given two shits about Trump's business dealings if he'd not been President and you know it.  Are you thinking the Supreme Court is too stupid to figure out that the only reason New York is interested in Trump is punitive political persecution of a president they deem unworthy of New York?   Their motive is clearly to try and prevent a second term for Trump in 2024.  

Now, even assuming the Supreme Court gets packed as part of the playbook, you will recall that the Left itself invented the concept of sanctuary cities, so just because New York issues the edit doesn't mean anyone is going drop to their knees or lift a finger to help them in their pathetic witch hunt.  But, assuming New York succeeds, Trump might want to move to Israel.  The last thing he should ever risk is actually being deported to New York to face a kangaroo court.

Edited December 2, 2020 by glenn239

[glenn239]

4 hours ago, Ssnake said:

And that'll be the same in pretty much all European countries, or the US. Vaccinating 70% of the whole population is a time-consuming process. Let's say a doctor needs, on average, 10 minutes per patient. 6 patients per hour, 60 patients per day, 350 per week, or 9,100 within half a year. Oh, well, let's take out the lunch break, and we reach 10,000.

Any vaccine shot I've ever got was by a nurse, not a doctor, and could be done faster than 10 minutes each.  

Trudeau is being evasive on timelines - it sounds like they've got themselves on the backfoot somehow even knowing that this is their most important task.  Maybe Canada would have been better off to have asked Trump to cover Canada in the American distribution program. 

[Josh]

10 minutes ago, glenn239 said:

New York wouldn't have given two shits about Trump's business dealings if he'd not been President and also done everything in his power to fuck over New York and you know it. 

Fixed it for you. Two problems with your above thesis: first it doesn't matter *why* someone is investigated if they truly are guilty. The question you really should be asking is why he was left alone in the first place, and I'm sure there was corruption of local political figures involved or else no one wanted the inevitable lawsuits Trump opens against anyone who does anything he doesn't like. Second it was obstructing justice that caused Trump to get investigated at the federal level by a special prosecutor who forwarded his findings to NY and NYC.

It wasn't 'just that he was president', it is that an investigation of his attempted obstruction of justice (and that is what it was, ten times over) gave NY NYC access to information they never would have had. If Comey hadn't been fired, Trump probably would have avoided any risk of charges by any one. But being investigated by someone like Mueller and his boys almost certainly dug up criminal business practices, with the evidence being forwarded. So it isn't "just because he was president", the animosity was generated by Trump and more over he opened the door to investigation by his bad behavior.

What's more, that investigation is also probably going to ensnare all of his adult children because they seem to have partaken in part of the book cooking. All of them are reportedly looking for pardons now.

EDIT for grammar

Edited December 2, 2020 by Josh
grammar

[glenn239]

5 minutes ago, Josh said:

Fixed it for you. Two problems with your above thesis: first it doesn't matter *why* someone is investigated if they truly are guilty. The question you really should be asking is why he was left alone in the first place, and I'm sure there was corruption of local political figures involved or else no one wanted the inevitable lawsuits Trump opens against anyone who does anything he doesn't like. Second of being president and obstructing justice caused Trump to get investigated at the federal level by a special prosecutor who forwarded his findings to NY and NYC.

It wasn't 'just that he was president', it is that an investigation of his attempted obstruction of justice (and that is what it was, ten times over) gave NY NYC access to information they never would have had. If Comey hadn't been fired, Trump probably would have avoided any risk of charges by any one. But being investigated by someone like Mueller and his boys almost uncertainly dug up criminal business practices, with the evidence being forwarded. So it isn't 'just because he was president, the animosity was generated by Trump and more over he opened the door to investigation by his bad behavior.

What's more, that investigation is also probably going to ensnare all of his adult children because they seem to have partaken in part of the book cooking. All of them are reportedly looking for pardons now.

As stated, New York's motives are obvious - political persecution to prevent an eligible candidate from running for the Presidency again.  Any state worthy of the name should warn New York now that they will lose their extradition rights if they pursue this brand of idiocy, and the red states should pressure Biden to bring down the full power of the Feds on these ass clowns in New York if they go forward with this.  If, instead, Biden decides to cooperate with New York, then  Biden will have to pack the supreme court in order for it to work, since no rational court will ever allow a state to pursue legal cases so obviously motivated by nefarious political objectives.  To do that, to pack the court they'll need to win in Georgia in January.

The bottom line for Trump is that before he has to move to Israel New York has to line up a number of ducks in a row.  So, for January, simply moving to Florida should suffice.

Edited December 2, 2020 by glenn239

[Brian Kennedy]

Dammit, I was worried we'd seen the last of Sidney Powell... maybe Q was right, and this all really was a ploy to give her more freedom by letting her work as an outsider!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/01/powell-cites-qanon-watkins/

Quote

In her legal quest to reverse the reality of last month’s election, President Trump’s recently disavowed attorney Sidney Powell has gained a strange new ally: the longtime administrator of the message board 8kun, the QAnon conspiracy theory’s Internet home.

 

Powell on Tuesday filed an affidavit from Ron Watkins, the son of 8kun’s owner Jim Watkins, in a Georgia lawsuit alleging that Dominion Voting Systems machines used in the election had been corrupted as part of a sprawling voter-fraud conspiracy.

Quote

Shortly after midnight Tuesday, Watkins posted what he called “a smoking-gun video” of a Dominion worker manipulating Georgia voting data by “plugging an elections USB drive into an external laptop … then suspiciously walking away.”

The undated video — which was recorded at a distance and includes a man and woman offering ongoing commentary of the “nerd boy” as he works inside an election office — shows nothing even remotely conclusive of voter fraud: The man uses a computer and a thumb drive, all of it very obviously caught on camera.

 

But Watkins’s messages nevertheless kicked QAnon-echoing accounts and online Trump supporters into conspiracy-theory overdrive. Many began sharing the name of a Georgia man they believed had been captured on the video, after they’d zoomed in on the man’s identification badge. A number of accounts on Twitter, 8kun and other pro-Trump websites shared links to the man’s possible LinkedIn profile, phone numbers, home address and personal details, including a photo of him as a groomsman in a friend’s wedding in 2018.

[Mikel2]

It all comes down to mutually assured destruction.  Plenty of dirt to be found on democrats if anyone bothers to look. And in the end, not rocking the boat is far too profitable for both parties.

[Josh]

46 minutes ago, glenn239 said:

As stated, New York's motives are obvious - political persecution to prevent an eligible candidate from running for the Presidency again.  Any state worthy of the name should warn New York now that they will lose their extradition rights if they pursue this brand of idiocy, and the red states should pressure Biden to bring down the full power of the Feds on these ass clowns in New York if they go forward with this.  If, instead, Biden decides to cooperate with New York, then  Biden will have to pack the supreme court in order for it to work, since no rational court will ever allow a state to pursue legal cases so obviously motivated by nefarious political objectives.  To do that, to pack the court they'll need to win in Georgia in January.

The bottom line for Trump is that before he has to move to Israel New York has to line up a number of ducks in a row.  So, for January, simply moving to Florida should suffice.

New York's actions clearly started well before Trump lost the election or any rumors of him running in 2024 circulated. Again, it was the Mueller investigation that opened the doors to the NYC/NY State investigations. If someone drops a fat dossier of evidence against a high profile target on your table and you're a DA, you don't throw it into the dust bin. You make a big deal of it and prosecute, because that's how DAs become politicians, whichever side of the aisle they live on.

Florida has basically no power to refuse extradition and it seems unlikely that it attempt to block such a move just for Trump. New York can reciprocate, and I don't think that's a fight any of the states want to get into.

Biden does not have any power over the state or city of New York. Biden can only affect any federal indictments that occur, and even then to some extent his hands are tied and he would have to yield to the judgement of whatever Attorney General he picks or else fire his attorney general until he gets the result he likes the way Trump did.

The only way this goes to the Supreme Court is if some part of the investigation is found to violate the defendant's rights. Otherwise it is just a criminal case.

[Ssnake]

1 hour ago, glenn239 said:

Any vaccine shot I've ever got was by a nurse, not a doctor, and could be done faster than 10 minutes each.

That depends of course on regulation of the medical field in every country. Whoever gives the shot still needs to examine the patient first for contraindicative conditions, then you need to sterilize the puncture point which requires some time to achieve the effect, and it's going to be an intramuscular shot as far as I heard, not a hypodermic one (not fundamentally more difficult but still). I'm not saying that you can't possibly streamline the process, but there's still limits to it if you want it to be medically safe and sound. We have a number of new vaccines with the bare minimum of tests that are being rushed into service, we have a large population, and we can't just indicriminately use air-powered vax guns in rapid fire mode.

I'm all for streamlining the process but I bet that a lot of the people who protest Covid restrictions because their freedoms are infringed are going to protest the vaccine just as loudly, especially if vaccinations were to be made mandatory and administered without proper medical procedure so we get to finish the process in four months rather than a year. I think it's going to take a full year before this is over. Which is what all the maligned experts said last February, that it'll take us two years in the best of cases. Here we are, one year is over and we have vaccine candidates, and even if everything works without a snag it'll take us another year before we can officially declare this "over".

[Simon Tan]

Make mine a phelobotomist.

[Ivanhoe]

2 hours ago, glenn239 said:

The bottom line for Trump is that before he has to move to Israel New York has to line up a number of ducks in a row.  So, for January, simply moving to Florida should suffice.

Should Biden be inaugurated, Israel will not be a safe haven. Biden is assembling an overtly anti-Semitic team as we speak, and apparently is going to resume friendly relations with Iran. No doubt in my mind that a Biden administration will be helping Iran go after Israel, both by proxy via Hezbollah and directly.

[Ivanhoe]

32 minutes ago, Ssnake said:

I'm all for streamlining the process but I bet that a lot of the people who protest Covid restrictions because their freedoms are infringed are going to protest the vaccine just as loudly, especially if vaccinations were to be made mandatory and administered without proper medical procedure so we get to finish the process in four months rather than a year.

The majority of anti-vaxxers I know are staunch lockdown proponents. TBH there's a rather clear ethnic divide; black folks are mostly pro-lockdown and anti-vax. Caveat of course is that more than half the local residents are prior military, and became anti-shot after the extensive sequence of jabs (including getting re-jabbed for smallpox every freakin' time they went downrange).

 

[Leo Niehorster]

In my day, the army had us march by in the training company (ca. 250 men) just after induction through a hall, and proceed to inoculate the hell out of us. Sure, there was the very occasional adverse reaction, and the male nurses weren't always gentle, but those jet injectors could handle a lot of people in a very short time.  So why couldn't this apply to the COVID-19 vaccinations?

--

Leo

Edited December 2, 2020 by Leo Niehorster

[Josh]

44 minutes ago, Ivanhoe said:

Should Biden be inaugurated, Israel will not be a safe haven. Biden is assembling an overtly anti-Semitic team as we speak, and apparently is going to resume friendly relations with Iran. No doubt in my mind that a Biden administration will be helping Iran go after Israel, both by proxy via Hezbollah and directly.

Biden hardly is anti Israel; I'm pretty sure he has very good AIPAC attendance record. He probably *is* anti Bibi however, due to Bibi's pressuring of the Obama admininstration (showing to speak to congress to bypass the president) and his other efforts to scrap the JCPOA.

It seems doubtful Biden will even try to prosecute Trump at the federal level, let alone pressure Israel to extradite. The bigger problem in that scenario is that Bibi might not survive the next election either, and it isn't clear there's a lot of love for Trump from the other side.

As I've said before, the Trump family has a friend in Saudi Arabia.

[Ivanhoe]

2 hours ago, glenn239 said:

Any vaccine shot I've ever got was by a nurse, not a doctor, and could be done faster than 10 minutes each. 

In the US, most pharmacy chains do shots, plus many Walmarts (and some Targets) have a little clinic.

Many public schools have an on campus nurse, so kids could be efficiently done that way. Plus, there are sadly tons of MAs and nurses unemployed due to people avoiding the doctor's office.

[RETAC21]

1 hour ago, Leo Niehorster said:

In my day, the army had us march by in the training company (ca. 250 men) just after induction through a hall, and proceed to inoculate the hell out of us. Sure, there was the very occasional adverse reaction, and the male nurses weren't always gentle, but those jet injectors could handle a lot of people in a very short time.  So why couldn't this apply to the COVID-19 vaccinations?

--

Leo

Been there, suffered that, I think the issue is that these vaccines are more sensitve than those ones

[glenn239]

2 hours ago, Josh said:

New York's actions clearly started well before Trump lost the election or any rumors of him running in 2024 circulated. Again, it was the Mueller investigation that opened the doors to the NYC/NY State investigations. If someone drops a fat dossier of evidence against a high profile target on your table and you're a DA, you don't throw it into the dust bin. You make a big deal of it and prosecute, because that's how DAs become politicians, whichever side of the aisle they live on.

Florida has basically no power to refuse extradition

Florida is going to bark like a seal while the sanctuary cities told the feds to piss off?  Maybe.  We'll see what happens. 

In the meantime, I can't believe any American would ever advocate arresting former presidents on political vendettas.  New York doing what Putin wants.  Very strange.

 

[Ivanhoe]

30 minutes ago, Josh said:

Biden hardly is anti Israel; I'm pretty sure he has very good AIPAC attendance record. He probably *is* anti Bibi however, due to Bibi's pressuring of the Obama admininstration (showing to speak to congress to bypass the president) and his other efforts to scrap the JCPOA.

Given that he has recently referred to lenders as shylocks, we'll need to agree to disagree on his anti-Semitism.

 

[glenn239]

2 hours ago, Ssnake said:

That depends of course on regulation of the medical field in every country. Whoever gives the shot still needs to examine the patient first for contraindicative conditions, then you need to sterilize the puncture point which requires some time to achieve the effect, and it's going to be an intramuscular shot as far as I heard, not a hypodermic one (not fundamentally more difficult but still). I'm not saying that you can't possibly streamline the process, but there's still limits to it if you want it to be medically safe and sound. We have a number of new vaccines with the bare minimum of tests that are being rushed into service, we have a large population, and we can't just indicriminately use air-powered vax guns in rapid fire mode.

I'm all for streamlining the process but I bet that a lot of the people who protest Covid restrictions because their freedoms are infringed are going to protest the vaccine just as loudly, especially if vaccinations were to be made mandatory and administered without proper medical procedure so we get to finish the process in four months rather than a year. I think it's going to take a full year before this is over. Which is what all the maligned experts said last February, that it'll take us two years in the best of cases. Here we are, one year is over and we have vaccine candidates, and even if everything works without a snag it'll take us another year before we can officially declare this "over".

Thanks for the additional info.  Curious to see what happens.

[Josh]

15 minutes ago, glenn239 said:

Florida is going to bark like a seal while the sanctuary cities told the feds to piss off?  Maybe.  We'll see what happens. 

In the meantime, I can't believe any American would ever advocate arresting former presidents on political vendettas.  New York doing what Putin wants.  Very strange.

 

I'm pretty sure Nixon would have been arrested too, if he hadn't been pardoned. You know, because he was guilty. Hypothetically in America no one is above the law.

If Trump was smart, he would resign before 1/20 and have Pence pardon him, and then it would be air tight. He could pardon his own children and any of his other criminal lackies ahead of the resignation.

 

ETA: the sanctuary cities are free to have their own policy and the feds are free to ignore it and still arrest immigrants there and/or cut federal funding in retribution. But there is almost nothing a state can do to another state. Florida won't do a seal imitation; it will just be powerless to change anything New York does.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Josh

[Josh]

16 minutes ago, Ivanhoe said:

Given that he has recently referred to lenders as shylocks, we'll need to agree to disagree on his anti-Semitism.

 

So in that one quote Biden is anti Semitic, but Trump is definitely not racist. Right?