MiloMorai Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 No punches pulled. That was a truly vile chapter in US weapons development--and there have been some stinkers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 Speaking of torpedo`s, what a modern torpedo sees when it`s launched https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/amp34838669/watch-submarine-launch-torpedo-from-torpedo-pov/?fbclid=IwAR18Iafun-0Z3xwTotsa8Jkt7-UtBjbkRbzTiaSA73dJJW7677ugqQ8J4qk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 Still waiting on a functional anti-torpedo torpedo. I understand at one point the old Soviet Navy advertised their R.B.U. series A.S.W. rocket launchers as a possible anti-torpedo defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptLuke Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 3 hours ago, Rick said: Still waiting on a functional anti-torpedo torpedo. I understand at one point the old Soviet Navy advertised their R.B.U. series A.S.W. rocket launchers as a possible anti-torpedo defense. The, admittedly limited, Russian source material I've seen routinely describes the RBU as an anti-torpedo weapon. Here's an example, via Google translation, from a recent article that Commander Salamander linked to: Quote Well, anti-submarine weapons (4 torpedoes SET-65 in two twin-tube torpedo tubes and RBU-1000 for anti-torpedo protection) with a subkeeping GAS "Platina" was frankly weak. There is a dedicated munition for decoying torpedos: The same missile casing (the 90R and its 90R1 guided rounds which are the rocket itself, plus a separating gravitational diving projectile) is used on the Magnesit-MN. That system is tasked with creating false targets for acoustic-guided enemy torpedoes. It has the same 4.3 km range, and weighs 115 kg. Its acoustics systems were developed by the St. Petersburg-based Akvamarin Corporation. Tuchkov writes: "After splashdown, the projectile sinks to a depth of 25 meters, and produces interference for a period of eight minutes, enough time to counter an enemy torpedo attack. The Magnesit-MN is capable of operating in two modes – as a generator of interference for guided torpedos, and as an imitator of acoustic signals typical for surface ships. In the first case, enemy torpedoes are disoriented; in the second, they rush to a false target –i.e., to the Magnesit-MN." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kennedy Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 (edited) Haven’t seen a lot of write ups about the German WW2 torpedo screwup, would be interesting to compare the two. edit to add — just stumbled across this kids thesis paper on it, a good read! Edited December 3, 2020 by Brian Kennedy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMorai Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 Brian, Articles: Faulty Torpedoes - The German Crisis (uboataces.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kennedy Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 2 hours ago, MiloMorai said: Brian, Articles: Faulty Torpedoes - The German Crisis (uboataces.com) Cool, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougRichards Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Brian Kennedy said: Cool, thanks! Interesting quote from that article: “I do not believe that ever in the history of war, men have been sent against the enemy with such a useless weapon” - Karl Donitz I wonder if German u-Boot crews and US Submariners ever talked about this after the war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMorai Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 Two more sites that might be of interest, The U-boat Wars 1939-1945 (Kriegsmarine) and 1914-1918 (Kaiserliche Marine) and Allied Warships of WWII - uboat.net ConvoyWeb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 5 hours ago, DougRichards said: Interesting quote from that article: “I do not believe that ever in the history of war, men have been sent against the enemy with such a useless weapon” - Karl Donitz I wonder if German u-Boot crews and US Submariners ever talked about this after the war? Mk8 worked alright though...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Not much detail there, but there are mentions of German torpedo failure in Drach's video on the Narvik fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special-K Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 (edited) Wow. Just reading the Wikipedia article on the Mark-14 got me pissed off. It boggles the mind that could have ever happened. Did any heads ever roll due to this? -K Edited December 4, 2020 by Special-K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Read Harry Homewood's WWII submarine novels, Final Harbor and Silent Sea. Homewood sailed on 11 patrols in the SWPac, so he knew whereof he wrote. His accounts of the quiet insurrection combat crews were forced to wage over the faulty torpedos are truly eye-opening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EchoFiveMike Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Pogues are always gonna pogue. This is always were "civilization" comes up short, because the solution to pogues is, and always shall be, physical violence. You bully pogues into doing their fucking job, period. S/F...Ken M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Becker Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 On 12/4/2020 at 12:11 AM, Brian Kennedy said: Haven’t seen a lot of write ups about the German WW2 torpedo screwup, would be interesting to compare the two. IMO the difference in US and German response to reports of failing fish was in the upper leaders. Dönitz trained the 1st generation of U boat commanders, his US counterpart had designed the flawed fish and both trusted their 'creations'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yama Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 The way Cajus Bekker broke down German torpedo scandal, Torpedo Directorate had often called for more testing, but Kriegsmarine always responded it had no ships to spare for such 'low priority' activity. Then Kriegsmarine finally held its own 'severe weather tests' which appeared to show serious deficiences in torpedo performance, TD threw a fit because testing was THEIR turf and dismissed the results as 'due to incorrect testing procedures'. Then the war began and nobody had time to worry about testing procedures anymore. Any way, torpedo failures were hardly just German and US thing. Finnish MTB crews experienced lots of failures especially with their Italian torpedoes, which were eventually tracked down to insufficient watertightness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMorai Posted December 5, 2020 Author Share Posted December 5, 2020 Was there any problems with Brit torpedoes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Becker Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) Never read anything about it or Italian, French, Soviet torpedo problems. Oh wait, the UK's magnetic detonators were flawed as late as early 1941. It was discovered when Swordfish attacked a British CA they had mistaken for ... the Bismarck. Obviously IDing ships was something not only army pilots found difficult. 🙃 Edited December 5, 2020 by Markus Becker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 As noted, the UK had problems with magnetic fuses (as did everyone who tried to use them in that period AFAIK). It turns the Japanese also had their own torpedo fiasco as well. I think the US had the most problems, with their being issues for every model of torpedo (air, surface, and sub launched) that they employed and the most time being needed to recognize the problem and correct it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep854 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Josh said: As noted, the UK had problems with magnetic fuses (as did everyone who tried to use them in that period AFAIK). It turns the Japanese also had their own torpedo fiasco as well. I think the US had the most problems, with their being issues for every model of torpedo (air, surface, and sub launched) that they employed and the most time being needed to recognize* the problem and correct it. *Admit Edited December 7, 2020 by shep854 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 13 hours ago, Josh said: As noted, the UK had problems with magnetic fuses (as did everyone who tried to use them in that period AFAIK). It turns the Japanese also had their own torpedo fiasco as well. I think the US had the most problems, with their being issues for every model of torpedo (air, surface, and sub launched) that they employed and the most time being needed to recognize the problem and correct it. What torpedo problems did the Japanese have? Other than the occasional premature explosion, in a target ship's wake if I remember right, and the dangers of O2 explosions when a ship was damaged, I was not aware of any other problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 Re Torpedo's, Ive not personally read of any problems with British Torpedo's. Im wondering if any issues with magnetic exploders were in fact on trial, and not in service. Most of the problems the Royal Navy had in submarines was the lack of a system comparable to the 'fruit machine' in German and American service. If you think about it, it would be surprising if there was any actual problems with the MkVIII it actually entered service in 1927, which I would imagine was rather before magnetic exploders came in vogue. Some considerable time before the problematic weapons in US Service. So it cant really be said to have been rushed into action. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_21-inch_torpedo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 4 hours ago, Rick said: What torpedo problems did the Japanese have? Other than the occasional premature explosion, in a target ship's wake if I remember right, and the dangers of O2 explosions when a ship was damaged, I was not aware of any other problems. I recently came across this account of IJN problems with Type 93 in the warships1 forum: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/warships1discussionboards/the-japanese-torpedo-scandal-of-1942-t42785.html#p857625 This is supposed to be the PDF source material for that first post: https://www.cortsfoundation.org/news/143-september-2018-publication-second-senshi-sosho-volume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Becker Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 8 hours ago, Rick said: What torpedo problems did the Japanese have? Other than the occasional premature explosion, in a target ship's wake if I remember right, and the dangers of O2 explosions when a ship was damaged, I was not aware of any other problems. That seems to have been it: http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTJAP_WWII.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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