Jump to content

Drones vs. Tanks and AFVs.


jstar
 Share

Recommended Posts

Well this a drone tank

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/army-2021-russia-orders-shturm-unmanned-battle-tank-system

 

Quote

As originally envisaged, a system would consist of four T-72B3s modified for unmanned operations: one with a shortened D-414 125 mm smoothbore tank gun and a dozer blade, a second armed with RPO-2 Shmel-M thermobaric rocket launchers, a third with two 2A42 30 mm cannons, and a fourth carrying an armament similar to the TOS-1A heavy thermobaric multiple rocket launcher. The UGVs were expected to be controlled by an eight-strong team housed in a fifth vehicle also based on the T-72B3 MBT.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 268
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

https://www.defenseworld.net/news/30322/Drone_Destruction_Range_of_Russian_Pantsir_SM_Air_Defense_System_Increased_by_30_#.YSy409_TWUk

Russia’s powerful Pantsir-SM air defense system can now destroy enemy drones located 30% farther than before.

Sergei Shoigu, Russian defense minister was quoted as saying by government-owned Zvezda“The new Pantsir installed closeby can detect unmanned aerial vehicles at far greater distances. Let me put it this way- it has been increased by 30%,” Shoigu said.

The Pantsir-SM is a deeply modernized version of the Pantsir-S. The Pantsir-SM variant incorporates a multi-functional targeting station, increasing target detection range from 40 to 75 km and engagement range from 20 to 40 km. The anti-aircraft system also uses a new high-speed extended range missile, and existing Pantsir systems can be upgraded to SM standard. It is fitted to a new 8×8 Kamaz truck chassis with an armored cab. Development completed in 2019.

The SM variant of Pantsir was first unveiled during the Victory Day parade in Moscow last year. It comes armed with new long-range missiles. It is expected to feature greater capabilities for intercepting artillery munitions, missiles and drones in the future.

Myanmar is the latest customer of the Pantsir system.  It placed an order for Pantsir S1s in January when Shoigu visited the country.

Based on practical experiences drawn from conflict zones such as Syria where cheap and small UAVs are often used, Russian experts created miniature missiles for the Pantsir. Four of these are placed in the standard transporter-launcher container of the basic anti-aircraft missile of the system. “Thus, the principle of hitting a cheap target with a cheap missile is being consistently implemented,” Ruslan Pukhov, director of the Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, told Defenseworld.net in June 2020.

Pukhov added that manufacturer KBP Instrument Design Bureau showcased upgraded Pantsir-SM on a Tornado chassis at Army-2019 event.

The system is said to have a striking range of 30km. “New more powerful missiles double the maximum range of destruction of air targets, while the updated radars extend the detection range and provide accurate guidance of missiles towards its target,” Ruslan added.

“If we again take a look at the experience of the combat use of the Pantsir, it is important to note that it perfectly performs its tasks of combating drone-type targets. The facts are available for both Syria and Libya,” the official asserted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im sure this is not news to anyone else, but this was new to me. Its latent ability to be used for anti drone operations, which clearly wasnt a major thing then, are apparent. im surprised nobody has revisited it, even allowing for the geneva protocols.

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/1k17-szhatie/

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting read. I've read on the Internet that the Royal Navy had fielded similar 'daziler' weapons during the Falklands conflict against low flying Argentinian fighter bombers. I don't know if that's true or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Im sure this is not news to anyone else, but this was new to me. Its latent ability to be used for anti drone operations, which clearly wasnt a major thing then, are apparent. im surprised nobody has revisited it, even allowing for the geneva protocols.

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/1k17-szhatie/

There are quite a few ongoing projects all over the world for combat vehicles equipped with high power lasers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thats a very good point, why not have drone just drop Munition. I am sure that will be common as well but sometimes a swarm of Kamikazi drones fire and forget might be the ticket. Im sure the future cybernetic/robotic battle field will be full of such horrors.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Doug said:

The old ALARM anti-radiation missile could loiter by descending on a parachute, waiting for the target radar to switch back on. You could call that a kamikaze drone. 

And autonomous one, unlike current crop that are targeted and sometimes even guided by people in the loop. Very good missile, with only problem being small warhead. Fact that it was retired instead of keeping it with upgrades is mindboggling to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

British MOD innit. These are the same people who sat on their hands whilst Marconi was cut to bits, without even a raised eyebrow.

I loved the idea you could select it either as as a snapshot in direct mode, or select it to loiter over a waypoint.  The only other weapon that could do that was Tacit Rainbow, and  that one didnt even make it out of testing. Its not like you could hang that on a Sidewinder pylon anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tactically, the use of a drone to deliver munitions instead of a suicide swarm, has the same kinetic effect plus BDA but essentially adds a large platform that is detectable from much farther away, and vulnerable to much longer ranged and capable systems.

Due to the complexity and sophistication of large MALE drones, it makes no sense to cut expenses in their payload. Therefore you have drones that cost millions, even tens of millions of dollars, but are far more vulnerable than a manned aircraft, so their attrition rates are naturally higher.

Suicide drones can be made much cheaper by allowing for lower quality of production and components in favor of quantity.

If BDA is critical, it is possible to send a low quantity of drones to do BDA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Using a dumb bomb as the projectile for smaller drones will work though, and increasingly well as the requisite AI is improved. Even if it is released very late, the chance of surviving the attack run will be very much higher than zero, as in a suicide attack.

Even for cheap drones there is a large advantage to being able to get them back, because they are far more bulky than the ammunition, and so your launching formation can now carry out far more attacks.

The limitation is range, though you could still opt to send a drone on a one way mission, though in this case even if it cannot get back to the launching platform, it may still be able to do some useful recon.
 

Edited by KV7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, KV7 said:

Using a dumb bomb as the projectile for smaller drones will work though, and increasingly well as the requisite AI is improved. Even if it is released very late, the chance of surviving the attack run will be very much higher than zero, as in a suicide attack.

Even for cheap drones there is a large advantage to being able to get them back, because they are far more bulky than the ammunition, and so your launching formation can now carry out far more attacks.

The limitation is range, though you could still opt to send a drone on a one way mission, though in this case even if it cannot get back to the launching platform, it may still be able to do some useful recon.
 

There are more disadvantages here.

First, suicide drones can maneuver all the way to the target. Dumb bombs cannot.

Second, drones carrying munitions will be significantly larger than suicide drones for the same warhead size, so greater drag which in turn means slower and shorter ranged.

Third, if the carrier drone is optimized for lift to reduce size and vulnerability, it will become even slower.

Four, and connected to point 2, the much increased total size means higher RCS.

Five, logistics will be more difficult with larger drones and now their added munitions. Especially since suicide drones can be launched as-is from vehicles.

Six, suicide drones don't necessarily suicide at any time of the mission. They can have a return capability. There is no obstacle to that, and I believe there are numerous types in service that can do that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share


×
×
  • Create New...