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8 hours ago, RETAC21 said:

I think at this point USian posters need to reflect on these 2 questions:

1) What does the other party need to do for me to vote them?

2) What does my own party need to do for me to stop voting them?

 

1.) For me to vote for any Democrat?  There is nothing the Democratic Party could reasonably do for me to support any candidate running under the Democratic Party Banner.  That wasn't always the case, but they are so far gone and around the corner there is no coming back.

2.)I've already not voted for Republicans, for various reasons.  I didn't vote for Bob Dole in 1996 because he had no vision and most importantly, he had no foundational principles that he could articulate.  Didn't vote for Clinton either. 

Didn't vote for Bush 43 in 2000, thought the nation deserved better than the son of a rather lame president.  Didn't vote for Algore either.  Voted for Bush 43 in 2004 because, as much as I disliked the how and why of the two wars, I wasn't prepared to allow somebody whose entire claim to fame was to denigrate everything I held dear and run down the very nation he pined to lead to become president.

I did vote for McCain, though not because he was a "hero" and quite honestly, I don't really know why other than because he had never openly espoused the Marxist way.  I did not vote for Romney for the simple reason that he chose to submit to Obama and as importantly, there wasn't a dime's worth of difference between what the two candidates actually believed.  I most assuredly did not vote for the guy who would, given the chance, fundamentally change the Constitution of the United States.

I did not vote for Trump in 2016, I thought the nation deserved much better than a prepubescent functionally illiterate moronic bully.  Nor did I vote for Hillary Clinton.

I did vote for Trump in 2020 because though he is still a prepubescent functionally illiterate moronic bully, he has governed much more conservative than any president in recent memory.  But here's the most vital reasons why I voted for Trump, 1.) Because the Democratic Party has gone absolutely bat shit crazy with their radical shift to the far left.  2.) Because the bureaucratic deep state is a real and corrupt entity that must be brought to heel. 3.) Because the Leftist Party is using guerilla armies to violently threaten and suppress all those that they deem enemies of The Party.  4.) Last, but very much not least, I could not allow myself to sit idly by without doing my part to speak out.  Silence assumes consent, I do not give my consent to the radical change Leftists are promising.

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17 hours ago, rmgill said:

How does Trump make things darker? Seriously, ARE we gonna see you screaming in your car that your gay, furry friends are gonna be stood agains the wall and shot by Trump and the ACB goonsquad? 

Does the shift in the middle east Israel vs the Arab World landscape make the horizon darker for you? 
 

Then you're not paying attention AT ALL. 

Trump has:
Resolved to keep us out of conflicts. He's dialing back on that. 
Dial back on federal regulation. He's been doing that.
Resolve the mid east issues. He's been doing that.
Deal with the trade issues with China - this is a big one, there's interviews of him talking about this back from 2007 or so. 
Treat people equally. He's always done that, the hysterical catastrophizing of the left not withstanding. 

The only thing that Biden has stood firm on is Gun Control and Higher taxes. He's blown all over the field on that since for ever. I suppose he MIGHT have veered away for his dedicated support for MBNA...

I dont believe I said Trump has made things worse. The Coronavirus was going to achieve exactly what it did if there was insufficient social distancing and mask usage. His failure is far more subtle than what the Democrats and some here have done, but no less critical.

He didnt lead. At no point in this thing has he shown an ouce of leadership. He has handled it like a gameshow host with the theatre on fire. 'Say, you guys run for the doors, im heading for the whiskey in the dressing room'.

Trump has resolved to keep out of conflicts. He has created one in the Persian Gulf, or again to be fair, reignited one when it had been successfully been put on the back burner. He sat on his hands whilst the Norks created an ICBM that could very well reach the United States. He is, despite his best efforts, still in Syria (thankfully). And he is only leaving Afghanistan by selling out to the very same guys responsible for killing over 2000 of your citizens. Now perhaps you will see all this as very edifying, but I dont. And nobody who spends five minutes looking at foreign policy seems to either.

Federal regulation, yes including the EPA, which Richard Nixon, in one of his finest actions created.

Resolve middle east issues. Syria still ongoing, Iran still creating mayhem, Egypt rearming with Russian weapons, Yemen still ongoing. The only thing he has achieved is peace treaties between nations not at war and giving everything Israel wants without asking for anything in return. Im supposed to cheer because?

This is the China still rearming, that there is still no trade deal with? Ill give him some credit on this one, he faced down china and put in Tariffs to protect your industry, just as I wish a British Government, ANY British Government would do. OTOH the farmers are not too impressed at their industry getting crushed. And it kind of spoils the effect of being butch against China that he had his tounge up Premier Xi's crevice for so long. Even as the virus was infecting your country, he was still praising him.

Yes, again Ill give due credit on that. He has been wholly obnoxious to both left and right wingers alike. And I dont think he treats the blacks any worse than anyone else without any money. All very egalitarian.

 

Is any of this going to be any better than Biden would be? Probably not, ill give you that.

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
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18 hours ago, RETAC21 said:

I think at this point USian posters need to reflect on these 2 questions:

1) What does the other party need to do for me to vote them?

2) What does my own party need to do for me to stop voting them?

 

1)  Stop doing what they are currently doing and planning on doing.

2)  Do what the other party is doing and planning on doing.

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3 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

I dont believe I said Trump has made things worse. The Coronavirus was going to achieve exactly what it did if there was insufficient social distancing and mask usage. His failure is far more subtle than what the Democrats and some here have done, but no less critical.

He didnt lead. At no point in this thing has he shown an ouce of leadership. He has handled it like a gameshow host with the theatre on fire. 'Say, you guys run for the doors, im heading for the whiskey in the dressing room'.

 

I won't argue that his leadership has been consistent or consistently well thought out.  However I have articulated in the past that there are areas where he has absolutely led on Covid.  Operation Warp Speed had a great deal of pushback within the agencies (legitimate concerns about cutting safety and evaluation pieces from what I can tell) and he over-ruled them.  Careers at FDA and CDC were broken over it.  I'll be honest, I have concerns about it but the push for drug and therapy acceleration and the components about sharing information and resources between hospitals across the world has led to the much lower current death rates.  Trump has personally been heavily involved through calls and some veiled threats to getting the senior pharma management to cooperate and share data between companies.  He apparently started ramping back hammering on-line about the China flu as an olive branch to China that apparently got our NHP's released for research (two people at CDC have told me this).  The rapid ramping up for ventilator and PPE production in the spring was on the administration.  The program to wash PPE around the country to hit hot spots on a 24 hour basis using FBI, USAF, and US Army aviation was a huge success during the spring and early summer.  The tracking program for reported cases that allowed this was approved by Trump in the early spring.  Trump has personally called the senior hospital administrators in hard hit hospitals to ask what they need.  Were you all aware that the US military (not unique, a lot of countries have done this) has surged military doctors into slammed hospitals?  Were you aware the Trump has met with these doctors back in the spring and summer to get assessments from what they saw on the floor?  I won't hammer again on his closing down flights from China when not only the Democrats but most world leaders were calling him xenophobic for over-reacting to a non-threatening virus.  Wait, yeah I will.  As bad as our Covid outbreak was in the spring here in the US the CDC estimates we would have had at least a 50% increase in fatalities through June had he not.  Did you know that Trump personally called Cuomo (the Cuomo who personally praised Trump's leadership back when NY was getting overwhelmed by the virus) to tell him they had early medical data and intelligence reports from the CIA about what was happening in Wuhan in March.  Cuomo was warned and told Trump to pound sand, I wonder if that's in his book?

 

I know the popular belief is that Trump fiddled while Rome burned but can anyone contend that the above are not examples of leadership?

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10 minutes ago, nitflegal said:

I won't argue that his leadership has been consistent or consistently well thought out.  However I have articulated in the past that there are areas where he has absolutely led on Covid.  Operation Warp Speed had a great deal of pushback within the agencies (legitimate concerns about cutting safety and evaluation pieces from what I can tell) and he over-ruled them.  Careers at FDA and CDC were broken over it.  I'll be honest, I have concerns about it but the push for drug and therapy acceleration and the components about sharing information and resources between hospitals across the world has led to the much lower current death rates.  Trump has personally been heavily involved through calls and some veiled threats to getting the senior pharma management to cooperate and share data between companies.  He apparently started ramping back hammering on-line about the China flu as an olive branch to China that apparently got our NHP's released for research (two people at CDC have told me this).  The rapid ramping up for ventilator and PPE production in the spring was on the administration.  The program to wash PPE around the country to hit hot spots on a 24 hour basis using FBI, USAF, and US Army aviation was a huge success during the spring and early summer.  The tracking program for reported cases that allowed this was approved by Trump in the early spring.  Trump has personally called the senior hospital administrators in hard hit hospitals to ask what they need.  Were you all aware that the US military (not unique, a lot of countries have done this) has surged military doctors into slammed hospitals?  Were you aware the Trump has met with these doctors back in the spring and summer to get assessments from what they saw on the floor?  I won't hammer again on his closing down flights from China when not only the Democrats but most world leaders were calling him xenophobic for over-reacting to a non-threatening virus.  Wait, yeah I will.  As bad as our Covid outbreak was in the spring here in the US the CDC estimates we would have had at least a 50% increase in fatalities through June had he not.  Did you know that Trump personally called Cuomo (the Cuomo who personally praised Trump's leadership back when NY was getting overwhelmed by the virus) to tell him they had early medical data and intelligence reports from the CIA about what was happening in Wuhan in March.  Cuomo was warned and told Trump to pound sand, I wonder if that's in his book?

 

I know the popular belief is that Trump fiddled while Rome burned but can anyone contend that the above are not examples of leadership?

Of course, non of this informative post will make the news.

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18 minutes ago, nitflegal said:

I won't argue that his leadership has been consistent or consistently well thought out.  However I have articulated in the past that there are areas where he has absolutely led on Covid.  Operation Warp Speed had a great deal of pushback within the agencies (legitimate concerns about cutting safety and evaluation pieces from what I can tell) and he over-ruled them.  Careers at FDA and CDC were broken over it.  I'll be honest, I have concerns about it but the push for drug and therapy acceleration and the components about sharing information and resources between hospitals across the world has led to the much lower current death rates.  Trump has personally been heavily involved through calls and some veiled threats to getting the senior pharma management to cooperate and share data between companies.  He apparently started ramping back hammering on-line about the China flu as an olive branch to China that apparently got our NHP's released for research (two people at CDC have told me this).  The rapid ramping up for ventilator and PPE production in the spring was on the administration.  The program to wash PPE around the country to hit hot spots on a 24 hour basis using FBI, USAF, and US Army aviation was a huge success during the spring and early summer.  The tracking program for reported cases that allowed this was approved by Trump in the early spring.  Trump has personally called the senior hospital administrators in hard hit hospitals to ask what they need.  Were you all aware that the US military (not unique, a lot of countries have done this) has surged military doctors into slammed hospitals?  Were you aware the Trump has met with these doctors back in the spring and summer to get assessments from what they saw on the floor?  I won't hammer again on his closing down flights from China when not only the Democrats but most world leaders were calling him xenophobic for over-reacting to a non-threatening virus.  Wait, yeah I will.  As bad as our Covid outbreak was in the spring here in the US the CDC estimates we would have had at least a 50% increase in fatalities through June had he not.  Did you know that Trump personally called Cuomo (the Cuomo who personally praised Trump's leadership back when NY was getting overwhelmed by the virus) to tell him they had early medical data and intelligence reports from the CIA about what was happening in Wuhan in March.  Cuomo was warned and told Trump to pound sand, I wonder if that's in his book?

 

I know the popular belief is that Trump fiddled while Rome burned but can anyone contend that the above are not examples of leadership?

Personally I dont see any of the examples you illustrate as examples of leadership to make the country better. I see much of the things he has said and done as  blatent opportunism to try and make himself more electable. For example, the taped interview with Woodward, on the one hand, to his credit, he seemed to get the idea of how dangerous this crisis is for the country. OTOH, he doesnt want to tell anyone because he is afraid they might panic. That is a leadership failure, and i think when people look back on it in the future, they will see that as the worst one. In common with most over nations, yes, but most other nations seem to have developed some sembelence of control since.

Yes, he did a great job of ramping up ventilators, I will give him credit on that one. He did lag with getting it underway because he didnt want to use the military production act. As it turned out, it was a complete red herring, because anyone was on a ventilator was probably on their way out anyway.  So yes, he applied himself, did it make a difference to the death toll? Through no fault of his own, probably not actually.

He is today, slagging off the doctors again as cooking the books to get more money. Even were that viable under the hypocratic oath, it hardly reinforces the publics trust of the doctors advising the best way out of this mess.  And this is again the failure in leadership. Rather than demonstrating a viable response, rather than reinforcing the advice he is getting from his doctors,he is actively working against them and pretending there is no problem at all, that the corner has been turned, presumably for electoral purposes. Does anyone really think at quarter of a million dead, and in the majority of states cases are still rising that America is near the end of this? I cant see it.

If he wanted to control this, he should have nationalized it right from the start. Offloading it on the states just offloaded the problem, so instead of one coordinated federal response he ended up with 50 different ones.  Presumably because he just didnt want to lead it, and potentially have to own any resulting failure.

 

Not that I think Biden is going to do any better. I honestly think its far to late for any new response.

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As for autocorrect, we are headed for a future in which our devices will enforce their own spellcheck, algorithms and data for which will be developed by Millennials. You can preview this future by watching the movie Idiocracy.

 

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1 hour ago, nitflegal said:

I won't argue that his leadership has been consistent or consistently well thought out.  However I have articulated in the past that there are areas where he has absolutely led on Covid.  Operation Warp Speed had a great deal of pushback within the agencies (legitimate concerns about cutting safety and evaluation pieces from what I can tell) and he over-ruled them.  Careers at FDA and CDC were broken over it. 

Not enough careers at the FDA, IMHO. Still can't buy isopropyl alcohol at the store, even though the regional distillery could, and offered to, flood the state with the stuff.

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6 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

I dont believe I said Trump has made things worse.

You implied that if we voted for Trump we were voting for Darkness. 

 

6 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

He didnt lead. At no point in this thing has he shown an ouce of leadership. He has handled it like a gameshow host with the theatre on fire. 'Say, you guys run for the doors, im heading for the whiskey in the dressing room'.

Functionally stupid. What's going on in the Middle East RIGHT NOW?

He Lowered taxes and had us in a booming economy before COVID. 

6 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Trump has resolved to keep out of conflicts. He has created one in the Persian Gulf, or again to be fair, reignited one when it had been successfully been put on the back burner.

What? He re-ignited a conflict? Which conflict was settled that he re-started? Are you missing hte fact that he has NOT started a new war? Kind of a first for a US president in a long time ain't it? 

6 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

He sat on his hands whilst the Norks created an ICBM that could very well reach the United States.

Perhaps he could have sent in a British Infantry Company with Soft caps to show them the error of their ways? 

6 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

He is, despite his best efforts, still in Syria (thankfully). And he is only leaving Afghanistan by selling out to the very same guys responsible for killing over 2000 of your citizens. Now perhaps you will see all this as very edifying, but I dont. And nobody who spends five minutes looking at foreign policy seems to either.

Federal regulation, yes including the EPA, which Richard Nixon, in one of his finest actions created.

I have detailed here repeatedly how the federal regs are WAY over scope. The FDA still exists. It's still doing it's job. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Personally I dont see any of the examples you illustrate as examples of leadership to make the country better.

Well, then I'm glad you're not a US Voter instead of a committed Labour voter. Because we can explain key details to you til we're blue in the face and you still ask why we have this stupid federalism thing. 

Quote

I see much of the things he has said and done as  blatent opportunism to try and make himself more electable. For example, the taped interview with Woodward, on the one hand, to his credit, he seemed to get the idea of how dangerous this crisis is for the country. OTOH, he doesnt want to tell anyone because he is afraid they might panic.

WHAT WAS CLOSING THE BORDERS ABOUT? 

Do you think that closing the borders indicates some perceived serious threat? He was doing his best to keep people upbeat while at the same time dealing with it in the real. The president has a real effect on the markets, the economy and the morale. 

When Churchill was making upbeat public statements but the war was going badly for the British do you slag him off for that? Good thing there wasn't a Woodward in the UK then, the Germans would have been able to get Sea Lion off the ground and all the Labour shits would have welcomed them with open arms for their labour reforms. 

 

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1 hour ago, rmgill said:

Well, then I'm glad you're not a US Voter instead of a committed Labour voter. Because we can explain key details to you til we're blue in the face and you still ask why we have this stupid federalism thing. 

WHAT WAS CLOSING THE BORDERS ABOUT? 

Do you think that closing the borders indicates some perceived serious threat? He was doing his best to keep people upbeat while at the same time dealing with it in the real. The president has a real effect on the markets, the economy and the morale. 

When Churchill was making upbeat public statements but the war was going badly for the British do you slag him off for that? Good thing there wasn't a Woodward in the UK then, the Germans would have been able to get Sea Lion off the ground and all the Labour shits would have welcomed them with open arms for their labour reforms. 

 

And he was doing nothing and showing zero leadership by holding daily meetings and press avails with the top people in government.

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