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It will be an immersive experience they say...


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4 hours ago, Allan Wotherspoon said:

Not sure about this.  When we visited the Normandy battlefields in 2018, the level of preservation seemed pretty balanced with the demands of tourism.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8763205/French-veterans-attack-plans-immersive-memorial-park-Normandy-coast.html

 

The superior quality of German concrete. Defying Allies shells in 1944 and time since then. ;) 

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I have

I found the people of Normandy to be lovely.  We stopped our platoon at the top of a steep hill to let the engines cool down.  An elderly lady came across the road with cheese sandwiches and water.

The mayor of a nearby town came to show us where the Germans killed part of his family and the trees where his family farm house was burned down.  A French jet fighter passed low over us and waggle wings.

I hold the country folk of France in the highest regard and if ever I left the United States then Normandy is where I would choose to settle.

You see, they are partly hostage to a history than most of them never experienced.  They live in a land caught up in time always tied to the invasion.  It isn't fair to the people that live there to permanently tie the land up for the people that died there.  France does a fine job of balancing the duty to both.

Now, some in the city can be a bit much but never so rude as the folks in the big city in the USA.  In fact, New York is full of people that make the rudest Parisian seem an angel.

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On 9/23/2020 at 10:55 AM, bojan said:

Have you actually ever visited so you can say it?

Yes, in 2018. We visited Juno Beach, Pegasus Bridge, Omaha Beach, Utah Beach, Merville Battery and a bunch of other places that I can't recall off the top of my head.

Ask DB about his crazy nav program and the drive to Pegasus Bridge...

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On 9/23/2020 at 6:55 PM, bojan said:

Have you actually ever visited so you can say it?

Yes Ive visited France. Both my Grandfathers visited it too, briefly, but they never saw a particular need to go back.....

BTW, you really need to do a better job of working out when im taking the piss. A big clue is, im British, so we do it all the time. We needle the French, they needle us. Its the thing we do.

On 9/23/2020 at 7:42 PM, Markus Becker said:

 

The superior quality of German concrete. Defying Allies shells in 1944 and time since then. ;) 

There is a REALLY good podcast on 'We have ways...' about German concrete, by a modern concrete expert that will probably break your heart. Supposedly there is one artilery bunker, I forget which one, which has shifted on its foundations. When he lookd at it, he came to the conclusion it was because it had been poured in two pours. Something about allied air raids making it really awkward to pour a bunker in one go. We really were such spoilsports.

 

Here we are.

https://play.acast.com/s/wehaveways/thehistoryofconcrete

 

 

 

 

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
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4 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Yes Ive visited France...

Visit more countries. And avoid tourist traps.

 

Quote

BTW, you really need to do a better job of working out when im taking the piss. A big clue is, im British, so we do it all the time. We needle the French, they needle us. Its the thing we do.

Yet you get mighty upset when someone pisses on UK, with or w/o reason. :D

Edited by bojan
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3 minutes ago, bojan said:

Visit more countries. And avoid tourist traps.

 

Yet you get mighty upset when someone pisses on UK, with or w/o reason. :D

And you dont when someone speaks out of turn about Serbia or the former Yugoslavia? And you hit the nail on the head, without reason. Most people dont trouble to get facts straight first.

Besides, the French are entitled, and we are entitled to take the piss out of them. Family are like that. I like the French just fine, although If someone were to drown the entire French political establishment in a wine vat, Id like that fine as well.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

And you dont when someone speaks out of turn about Serbia or the former Yugoslavia?

About former Yugo, it was me who noted that "If it was good thing it would not have ended way it did" and that it was one of the 3 biggest mistakes on Balkans in 20th century. About Serbia... I have way more bad things to say than you can imagine, I just don't find whining about broken shit in my or any other country to be terribly interesting to me or anyone else. I also require accusations to have basis in the fact, and not be just parroted "BBC said that...", but I guess that would be a problem in your book...

 

As for French politicians, for the most part they did and do what was in the best interests of the France, not anyone else. Which is a what they should do. De Gaulle is a prime example, if he has been a British he would have probably been your idol.  OW, British don't like French because they remind them too much about themself. :D

Edited by bojan
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No, I would always have regarded De Gaulle as a complete shit, whether he was British or not. He displayed no interest in his allies, no interest in collective European Security, and capitulated on every war France was fighting at the time. I wouldnt even want to have seen France treated the way he treated Britain when it tried to get into the EEC. Lets face it, he was a French version of Trump. I all despise politicians, its just that French ones seem to epitomise the worst attributes in all European politicians. Even American Politicians have noticed.

RTR9MGD.jpg

The British dont like the French? Its not true. We love the Tour de France, we like French properties, we even like French wine. We just dont like the politic's, thats all. Say what you will about Britain, at least they shirked their fixation with the far right with Oswald Mosley. France has not, and I for one find that troubling.

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15 hours ago, sunday said:

Arromanches, Bayeux, Pointe du Hoc... All the invasion beaches bar Sword.

But perhaps Bojan meant Stuart.

Don't forget the rest of the wandering, we also swung through Samur, Cantigny, Beumont-Hamel, Vimy Ridge, and Ypres to name a few.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Could the Bojan and Stuart dog-and-pony show just get a room already?

The proposal, if real, is awfully insensitive. I'm not aware of any other site of military significance that has been "honoured" in this way. It reminds me of the extreme end of the realignment of museums from displays of historically interesting material into an "experience".

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Probably about as much chance of that as you passing up an opportunity to sneer at someones comments 3 weeks after the event I guess.

As for insensitive, well, these are the people who dismantled Pegasus Bridge for the 50th anniversary of DDay. But Its their country, its up to them how they treat theirown history.

We are arguably no better. Is it really any worse than doing reenactment on colossally bloodthirsty Civil War battlefields as English Heritage often do? There are regularly'demonstrations' at Tewksbury, which was about as bad a bloodletting as England ever saw. It may be new to view WW2 as entertainment, but its inevitable as that generation ever more swiftly disappears.

Then there are things like this which seems a popular emerging sport.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYxQR5haqTs

 

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
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4 hours ago, DB said:

The proposal, if real, is awfully insensitive. I'm not aware of any other site of military significance that has been "honoured" in this way. It reminds me of the extreme end of the realignment of museums from displays of historically interesting material into an "experience".

The Gettysburg Tower - demolished now thank God - and the dozens of kitschy "attractions" along Emmitsburg Pike probably qualify as similar "honours".

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