Simon Tan Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 They are really very similar, short stroke piston AR. They were allowed to enter because they have a German address! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Well the complaint isn't about the magazine, but an actual HK patent from 2007 on a bolt system enabling safe function after immersion in water. Or more specifically, one of the inventors named in the patent is Robert Hirt, co-developer of the HK 416, who went on to design the CAR816 for Caracal, Haenel's mother company. There is already a lawsuit on the issue, though formally against use of the system in the MK556's semi-auto CR223 version which has been procured by police in several German states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Pay HK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 The MoD has announced to reconsider the offers of both HK and Haenel with the participation of an independent patent lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 They should just have both build it. And rope in Rheinmetall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 (edited) Haenel has been excluded from the program on grounds of patent infringement, allegedly both over HK's bolt design and Magpul's magazine. Whether that means the contract will go to one of HK's two entries or the whole process will be started over is not clear yet. Of course now Haenel is likely to sue as they commissioned their own expertise to prove they infringed on nuthin'. I'm just glad that unlike larger bits like the spiraling procurement of new heavy transport helicopters or fleet oilers the whole circus is largely inconsequential, since there remain few complaints about the current G 36 from actual users despite the original excitement over hot accuracy which led to the replacement process. Some even suggest the MoD is quite happy to delay this as it gives them some additional time to watch developments in the rifle sector which might improve the sense of replacement. ETA: Official statement says the order will go to the HK 416. Edited March 2, 2021 by BansheeOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahawk Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 And the protest is already incoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 This reminds me of the M27 IAR program. At least the Bundeswehr can take over stocks of French 416s in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Even if they infringed on a patent, they can just pay HK a royalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahawk Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 On 3/3/2021 at 6:45 AM, Simon Tan said: Even if they infringed on a patent, they can just pay HK a royalty. Still, with the knowledge the German government can not give them the contract unless HK would licence the design to Haenel. I personally expect that the tender will be dropped and restarted after new requirements are set and HK will probably get a limited order for more and improved G36s. It would be wise to draw this out unless NATO decides on a new round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 HK is used to fixed tenders...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 1 hour ago, seahawk said: Still, with the knowledge the German government can not give them the contract unless HK would licence the design to Haenel. In the USA that could be forced under eminent domain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 You have it ass backwards, in Germany HK has eminent domain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 On 3/4/2021 at 4:46 PM, Simon Tan said: HK is used to fixed tenders...... I'm guessing here, but I assume you mean fixed as in " the fix is in" as opposed to "fixed price". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 U sez dat. Not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted April 24, 2021 Share Posted April 24, 2021 (edited) And H&K potentially getting sued by Magpul. This is funnier than a circus, keep it going for at least 5 more years. https://soldat-und-technik.de/2021/04/bewaffnung/26773/system-sturmgewehr-bundeswehr-neue-unklarheiten-bei-patentrechten/ Edited April 24, 2021 by bojan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 I'll say it again, good thing this is no really pressing issue, unlike the procurement cockups for much more urgently needed bigger systems. The article notes at the end that many G 36s are worn out and only part has interfaces to accept modern optics and night vision equipment, but can be replaced/adapted bit by bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Becker Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 7 hours ago, BansheeOne said: The article notes at the end that many G 36s are worn out and only part has interfaces to accept modern optics and night vision equipment,[b] but can be replaced/adapted bit by bit.[/b] That would be....simple and inexpensive. No way it's going to happen unless the CDU finds itself in the opposition after the fall. Otherwise the G36 is out because keeping it would show the politicians made a mistake. Now the consequences of that new lawsuit. Do we have some G3 in storage? I hear the modernized Swedish ones are rather nice. 🤓 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 Recapitalizing G36 is pointless. Haenael should receive the award with half the contract given to Mauser for production and the German government will bear any damned royalties. Unbelievable how incompetent Germans are to just buy a stupid rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunday Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 Reminds me of the status of Krupp as *The* Reich's Armory between the end of the Franco-Prussian War and the end of WWI. Krupp considered themselves free to sell quick firing cannon to the Imperial Chinese, cannon that was used against German forces during the Boxer Rebellion, but they raised a monumental stink when rumors of the Heer buying from Vickers became known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 On 4/26/2021 at 4:02 PM, Simon Tan said: Recapitalizing G36 is pointless. Haenael should receive the award with half the contract given to Mauser for production and the German government will bear any damned royalties. Unbelievable how incompetent Germans are to just buy a stupid rifle. You only think this because it's been a while since the UK bought a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Becker Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 On 4/26/2021 at 5:02 PM, Simon Tan said: Recapitalizing G36 is pointless. Haenael should receive the award with half the contract given to Mauser for production and the German government will bear any damned royalties. Unbelievable how incompetent Germans are to just buy a stupid rifle. The gun seems sound. New production with a good barrel and pic rail instead of a fixed optic and you are done. Or are the new rifles even better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssnake Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 Better for HK? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 It is not. There are quite a lot of aspects of G36 that are far from ideal. The HK433 and even 416 are architecturally and technically much better. Bizzaroland German thinking ignores the reality of a really quite resurgent German small arms industry which is commercially and export driven. It really shows how corrupt the civil service and politicos are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 The Federal Antitrust Office has rejected a Haenel complaint against the order being handed over to HK. However, the decision is not based upon the whole patent infringement thing, but the fact that a recalculation of the price offered by Haenel meant it was now economically inferior to HK's. Which of course poses the question just when this was recognized; it was certainly never mentioned before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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