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Cold War British Army - would they form any additional tank squadron(s) during mobilisation?


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On 9/12/2020 at 12:44 PM, Stuart Galbraith said:

I have a great deal of ignorance of how reservists were held in the British Army, its a subject im interested in but ive not really found a one stop shop to clear up all my questions. Im not sure there was any reservists outside the TA, I think that was the all encompassing arm. There are to be sure references to officers rejoining regiments in a crisis because they were reservists, but that would, i would have thought, meant they were TA. I thought we didnt really embrace a reserve till the British Army reserve was formed as a failed attempted to do it all on the cheap.

Thats my ignorance speaking. Id appreciate someone clearing that up.

I am more familiar with the current situation than 1980s, but I doubt it's changed much.

The Regular Reserve consists of those ex-Regular soldiers who have a compulsory liability for mobilisation after discharge from Regular service, usually for up to 6 years (2020s rules). They can have a further liability as part of the Recall Reserve, depending on terms and conditions when they joined/left. They can volunteer to extend their liability or to serve it in the Army Reserve [read TA].

The Regular Army Reserve of Officers is the equivalent for officers, but with longer liability under a bewildering variety of different rules varying by capbadge and TACOS up to age 50, 55 or 60 (2010s/2020s), perhaps with a possibility of recall beyond that under some different rules that I don't remember.

There are no formed units of Regular or Recall Reserve, they are just a big pool of ex-service people who can be mobilised and in the first instance used to fill gaps in existing formed units or expand them to war establishment.

The TA (today's Army Reserve) was only the volunteer reserve element, separate from the compulsory Regular Reserve.

If you have trouble sleeping, try Part 2 of the Reserve Land Forces Regulations. There's a new version since that one, and it is 2010s rather than 1980s rules, but if you dig around using the right terminology you might find some more vintage material. 

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Regular reserves would have filled the mythical 4th rifle company in the infantry battalions and extr 2 guns in the artillery..at least read that in the very dim past

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I think there is a good case for saying, all those guys would have been called up just in time to form the graves registration detail...

My father, after he left the TA, was told to report to New Zealand Camp farm on Salisbury Plain in the event of a call up. It was quite amusing to see it appear on an episode of 'Bad Lads Army'.

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  • 2 months later...
On 8/21/2021 at 1:19 AM, LouieD said:

@Darth Stalin

Received some further information regarding the RAC in the late 1980's:

1) The Tidworth Option/Proposal  That I mentioned in another thread...

The Type 57 Armd Regt and the Armd Recce Regt, both at Tidworth, would combine assets to form:

- The UKMF Armd Regt with 3x Sqns of MBTs (43 MBTs)  and 1x Armd Recce Sqn with 16x Scimitar CVRT & 6x Striker CVRT (4 @ PE)

- 19th Inf Bde Armd Regt which was basically a Type 43 Armd Regt, however the AMF(L) Armd Recce Sqn would be its fourth Sqn

 

Now regarding the RAC Centre Regt & RAC Training Regt there was a study that was attempting to civilianize/contractoralize some manpower of both. This was strongly opposed by DRAC. Reading through the recommendations I was able to discover the following:

- The Armd Delivery Regt @ Bovington (a shadow organization, activated on TTW) which had an establishment of 96 Officers & 676 ORs, would immediately form 2x Category A (Regulars) WMR MBT Sqns (28 MBTs) which would go to BAOR (the MBTs were in store there) upon the START of TTW. Basically giving 1st BR Corps and additional two regular Armd Sqns. 

- Upon full mobilization, 12xWMR Armd Sqns would be formed from Reservists & REDRUM personnel. Again under command of the ADR.

- The RAC Training Regt, DRAC did not want to lose any personnel because it would not be able to fill establishment to a Type 57 Armd Regt

4AB's two Armd Regts had their fourth Sqns in Cyprus (easily can fly them back) and Berlin (not leaving there).

33 AB's Armd Regt (from the Household Cav) had only three Sqns.

So those to Category A would nicely fill out those Regts......

 

I don't have anything further at this time but will keep digging.

Oh, man, great info!

I only regret having not seen that before, only in November...

I have the following questions:

1. How long would it take to form those "immediately formed cat A reserve tank sqns" that could fill-in the "missing" sqns in BAOR, and send them to Germany?

2. How long would it take to form and have operationally ready those 12 x WMR squadrons? And what would it be their purpose? To form additional 3 x Type 57 tank regts (say, 1st ADR, 2nd ADR and... 2nd HCMR ;) ?) or be send to Germany as war replacements?

3. What would be the possible use of RAC Training Regt (be it Type 43 or Type 57)?

4. Was the RAC Training Centre capable of fielding an Armored Bde HQ (and in what time) to command all those "surplus" regiments? (including Infantry Demonstration Bn with FV432)

5. Were there any "human resources" (Cat A resreve etc.) and surplus eqp available to form "reserve batteries" to form additional "reserve arty regts" to provide support for those brigade(s) or any Home Defence units that would require it?

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6 hours ago, Darth Stalin said:

Oh, man, great info!

I only regret having not seen that before, only in November...

I was starting to worry about you 😉

I have the following questions:

1. How long would it take to form those "immediately formed cat A reserve tank sqns" that could fill-in the "missing" sqns in BAOR, and send them to Germany?

Well it looks like, I have received further docs, that Five (5) Category A (Regular) WMR would be formed PRIOR to TTW (there were different NATO alert states that the UK followed). The RAC Centre Regt at Bovington would form two and the RAC Training Regt would form two. I have not identified the fifth Sqn. All five of these would be formed from regular RAC personnel that were ERE (Extra-Regimentally Employed), personnel from the Regt that was employed as both the RAC Centre & Training Regts, and  other training units. These five were immediate reinforcements for BAOR with the MBTs stored there. I am assuming that this could be conducted very quickly.

2. How long would it take to form and have operationally ready those 12 x WMR squadrons? And what would it be their purpose? To form additional 3 x Type 57 tank regts (say, 1st ADR, 2nd ADR and... 2nd HCMR ;) ?) or be send to Germany as war replacements?

Those twelve would only be formed upon mobilization/TTW, it depends on the time frame of alerts, mobilization, TTW etc.

Those twelve formed from Reservists and REDRUM personnel and be under command of the Corps Armd Delivery Regt (which itself would be formed from 2 AD Sqn in FRG and one Sqn each from the RAC Centre & Traing Regt). These would form into Sqns and be BCR (Battle Casualty Replacements).

No the docs I have specifically stated that there was no intention to form new units, everything was geared to keeping the Regts already in existence going. The only possible exceptions were forming two Armd Recce Sqns for the proposed COGRAM Bdes and the regular Regt at Bovington/Catterick being turned into a Type43/57 Armd Regt and being sent to Germany as part of an existing Bde.

3. What would be the possible use of RAC Training Regt (be it Type 43 or Type 57)?

See above. I am waiting for the ITO Study (Individual Training Organization). The prior plan had been to stop all training and basically send everyone on active service, back to their units or form Home Defence Coys. This began to change in the late 80's. I will know more when I receive those docs though.

4. Was the RAC Training Centre capable of fielding an Armored Bde HQ (and in what time) to command all those "surplus" regiments? (including Infantry Demonstration Bn with FV432)

No, see above again, no new units...

5. Were there any "human resources" (Cat A resreve etc.) and surplus eqp available to form "reserve batteries" to form additional "reserve arty regts" to provide support for those brigade(s) or any Home Defence units that would require it?

I don't have anything specific on the RA just yet, but if you look at my document there was enough artillery equipment, albeit mostly light, to be able to do so. But again, that may have been used for the two COGRAM Bdes.

Furthermore as of October 1989:

the Army had over 500 Chieftains (various Mks) out of units....

The WMR liability was 277 MBTs(about 19x Sqns worth), only 112 MBTs(8x Sqns) had been allocated (put in store and ready to go) to WMR.

DRAC reported that there were over 1,300 RAC Reservists who were MBT Crews (enough to man 325 MBTs), 300 of these were driver qualified on Chally.

There were another 5,000 RAC Reservists available for other roles.

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Thanks a lot, Louie! You're really a gold mine of informations about the Cold War British Army! Hail to You!

So, as there could be 5 x Chieftain/Chally 1? "surplus" sqns available for Germany, IMHO these could be distributed as follows (my hypothesis):

1. 3 x sqns to fill-in the 3-sqn regts in BAOR (all in 3rd Armd Div):

- 14th/20th King’s Hussars (Chally 1) - 1 sqn in Berlin

- 17th/21st Lancers (Chally 1) - 1 sqn in Cyprus (or this one is recalled from Cyprus)

- The Blues and Royals (Chally 1) - only 3 sqns

However, these “surplus” sqns would be on Challys or Chieftains? (were there enough Chally 1s to fill-in these regts into Type 57 regts? AFAIK 7 Chally regts required 399 tanks, so with 420 produced this would be enough, leaving some 21 tanks - or a full 14-tank sqn - in RAC Training Centre?)

2. 1 x sqn to fill-in the 19th Inf Bde’s The Royal Hussars (after Tidworth Option is introduced) into Type 57 Regiment

3. 1 x sqn plus “Cyprus sqn” (or 2 x “surplus sqns”) to support 9th/12th Royal Lancers in similar way as the 1st RTR would support 1 QDG and 16/5 QRL of the “Screening Force” (2 x tank sqns per Armd Recce regt)

Then an additional sqn from Bovington/Catterick could “beef-up” 1st Inf Bde (UKMF) into Type 57 Regt (after Tidworth Option is introduced) while the rest of the regt (Type 43) may go to Germany (possibly again reinforced with WMR sqn? to Type 57), say to reinforce 2nd Inf Div against possible Soviet deep penetration raids/airborne landings.

 

Edited by Darth Stalin
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I cant see the sense of sending a Chally squadron to Berlin. At worst it would die quickly, at best it would never be used. Cyprus, cant see it, it would take too long to get there.

I think you have to look at the Wessex Yeomanry, and the role they conduct today as providing remounts for the British Army, I think it likely there would have been some units fulfilling that role in this period. I seem to recall in Operation Granby there was a Squadron (I cant remember which one, but Ive a nagging feeling it might have been a Lifeguards Squadron) providing remounts in the event of heavy casualties, thankfully never used.

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I'm not saying about "sending them to" but rather "where those sqns are" - 1 was in Berlin and would stay there, so the mobilized sqn qwould replace it in 4th Armd Div.

Also the sqn from Cyprus could possibly not be available "on hand", so (IMHO) the crews from Cyprus would fly to the UK, while mobilized sqn would earlier fly from UK to Germany to fll the gap.

Sort of misunderstanding, perhaps ;)

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5 hours ago, Darth Stalin said:

Thanks a lot, Louie! You're really a gold mine of informations about the Cold War British Army! Hail to You!

So, as there could be 5 x Chieftain/Chally 1? "surplus" sqns available for Germany, IMHO these could be distributed as follows (my hypothesis):

1. 3 x sqns to fill-in the 3-sqn regts in BAOR (all in 3rd Armd Div):

- 14th/20th King’s Hussars (Chally 1) - 1 sqn in Berlin

- 17th/21st Lancers (Chally 1) - 1 sqn in Cyprus (or this one is recalled from Cyprus)

- The Blues and Royals (Chally 1) - only 3 sqns

[b]However, these “surplus” sqns would be on Challys or Chieftains?[/b] (were there enough Chally 1s to fill-in these regts into Type 57 regts? AFAIK 7 Chally regts required 399 tanks, so with 420 produced this would be enough, leaving some 21 tanks - or a full 14-tank sqn - in RAC Training Centre?)

2. 1 x sqn to fill-in the 19th Inf Bde’s The Royal Hussars (after Tidworth Option is introduced) into Type 57 Regiment

3. 1 x sqn plus “Cyprus sqn” (or 2 x “surplus sqns”) to support 9th/12th Royal Lancers in similar way as the 1st RTR would support 1 QDG and 16/5 QRL of the “Screening Force” (2 x tank sqns per Armd Recce regt)

Then an additional sqn from Bovington/Catterick could “beef-up” 1st Inf Bde (UKMF) into Type 57 Regt (after Tidworth Option is introduced) while the rest of the regt (Type 43) may go to Germany (possibly again reinforced with WMR sqn? to Type 57), say to reinforce 2nd Inf Div against possible Soviet deep penetration raids/airborne landings.

 

Well Darth, its all relative.....how much warning time was there, when did NATO and the UK call alerts etc. 

Those five sqns were intended to form and move, again, prior to TTW. Now MBT's existed for them to man but it was up to HQ 1 BR Corps/Cmdr RAC BAOR how to deploy them.....they could of just be held in reserve as first line BCRs or they could have backfilled Bdes which had Regts with only three Sqns, I say Bdes here because, and I tried to show this in my document where known, each Bde broke down into combined arms battlegroups. For instance the HC unit in 33 Bde had only three sqns, I could see one of these Category A Sqns, rounding-out so to speak, the Bde to provide four Sqns.

Now the WMR MBTs were Chieftains, so I doubt they would be grafted into Chally equipped Bdes BUT the Berlin Sqn would leave their Challys back at Regt in BAOR AND scrapping together training vehicles and VOR (vehicles off the road, being worked on by REME Fitters)  two Sqns of Challys could be manned, hence DRAC reporting in October 1989 that of 1,300 reservist MBT crews, 300 were Chally qualified and that was just Reservists who would most likely be backfill to bring units up to WE or BCR. I venture to guess the Category A blokes would all be both Chieftain and Chally qualified.

 

I hope this all makes sense, basically, from what I have so far, there was no detailed plan stating "X Sqn goes to Y Bde?Battlegroup". Decisions on deployment would be made HQ 1 BR Corps/RAC BAOR relative to the situation at hand.

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Yeah, anyone that was Challenger qualified, would have been Chieftain qualified. They were still using them as the training tank in Suffield up to about 94 or so. So a lot of crews would have been cross trained (and in a lot of ways its near identical a gunnery system anyway).

Yes agreed on the rest, makes perfect sense.

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7 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

I cant see the sense of sending a Chally squadron to Berlin. At worst it would die quickly, at best it would never be used. Cyprus, cant see it, it would take too long to get there.

I think you have to look at the Wessex Yeomanry, and the role they conduct today as providing remounts for the British Army, I think it likely there would have been some units fulfilling that role in this period. I seem to recall in Operation Granby there was a Squadron (I cant remember which one, but Ive a nagging feeling it might have been a Lifeguards Squadron) providing remounts in the event of heavy casualties, thankfully never used.

Stu, you are correct it was The Life Guards, they gave up one Sqn to fill out the 14/20 KH IIRC and then provide part of the ADR with 1 QO Hldrs, I have the wire diagram somewhere. I will get it to you when I get home.

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3 hours ago, LouieD said:

Well Darth, its all relative.....how much warning time was there, when did NATO and the UK call alerts etc. 

Those five sqns were intended to form and move, again, prior to TTW. Now MBT's existed for them to man but it was up to HQ 1 BR Corps/Cmdr RAC BAOR how to deploy them.....they could of just be held in reserve as first line BCRs or they could have backfilled Bdes which had Regts with only three Sqns, I say Bdes here because, and I tried to show this in my document where known, each Bde broke down into combined arms battlegroups. For instance the HC unit in 33 Bde had only three sqns, I could see one of these Category A Sqns, rounding-out so to speak, the Bde to provide four Sqns.

Now the WMR MBTs were Chieftains, so I doubt they would be grafted into Chally equipped Bdes BUT the Berlin Sqn would leave their Challys back at Regt in BAOR AND scrapping together training vehicles and VOR (vehicles off the road, being worked on by REME Fitters)  two Sqns of Challys could be manned, hence DRAC reporting in October 1989 that of 1,300 reservist MBT crews, 300 were Chally qualified and that was just Reservists who would most likely be backfill to bring units up to WE or BCR. I venture to guess the Category A blokes would all be both Chieftain and Chally qualified.

 

I hope this all makes sense, basically, from what I have so far, there was no detailed plan stating "X Sqn goes to Y Bde?Battlegroup". Decisions on deployment would be made HQ 1 BR Corps/RAC BAOR relative to the situation at hand.

Tanks a lot again, Louie!

And Stu of course too! 

That explains a lot and is really great info to know.

And as I wrote above, judging from the number of Chally 1 produced, all Type 43 regiments with Chally 1s, that have their sqns deployed elsewhere (Berlin ad Cyprus) definitely have the number of tanks required available (7 regts per 57 tanks = 399; enough, though with only a sqn left), also the HC regiment too.

Ouch, one more thing:

from Your BAOR ORBAT one can read that in case of war the 2 x armd recce regts of 1st and 4th Armd Divs would form "BAOR Screening/Covering Force" (an ad-hoc brigade), reinforced with 1st RTR.

However, provided that the BS/CF's mission is complete, the Armd recces go back to their "parent" divisions, could it be possible to use the HQ/staff of this "Force" as an HQ of an additional Bde? (say, with 1st RTR, Bovington regt and Inf Demo Bn, plus an arty bn - maybe from 24th bde?)

Just asking if the staff intended to form the BS/CF's HQ was enough to act as an Bde HQ?

Edited by Darth Stalin
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Darth,

The Chally 1 buy was only enough for seven Regts, you needed to calculate training, repair pools, etc. That being said before the decision  to purchase a MBT to replace Chieftain they did price out an ALL Chally 1 fleet based on 13x Armd Regts plus BATUS, repair pool, and training.....all 13 would be Type 43.......this was before the Tidworth Option discussions though.

Now let me opine on Brig Sanders, who was Brig RAC BAOR from 1987-1991. His peacetime function was to be DRAC's representative in BAOR and handle, with his small staff, any RAC matters (after all with 14 Regts in situ, it was a large bailiwick). Upon TTW him and his staff, as I relay in my doc, took command of the Screening Force ie. the two Armd Recce Regts. Now it is most likely that after screening the IGB and finding the WP axis of advance, the Regts would have been chopped back to their respective Divs.....however after reading some of Brig Sanders thoughts, they may have stayed together under his command. Brig Sanders was of the opinion that 1 BR Corps needed a Corps Recce Bde of at least TWO Regts PLUS each Div having its own Recce Regt. Now the only other available Recce Regts were the two Yeomanry regts assigned to 2 Inf Div which was in the Corps Rear Area, however they had huge assets, 80 FOX CVR (W) each. What I can see happening, perhaps, based on Brig Sander's writings, is that he would have used his Recce assets in the best way possible but possibly combining them into ad-hoc groups to cover the Corps front, Div fronts and the Corps Rear Area.

No, there wouldn't be an additional Armd Bde but I can see a "Recce Bde"  being unofficially formed, especially if there was a build-up to hostilities allowing it. (BAOR scenarios were always based on worst case which was 10 days from mobilization to the WP coming across the IGB)

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Thanks for more info and explanations, Louie!

BTW:

15 minutes ago, LouieD said:

Darth,

The Chally 1 buy was only enough for seven Regts, you needed to calculate training, repair pools, etc. That being said before the decision  to purchase a MBT to replace Chieftain they did price out an ALL Chally 1 fleet based on 13x Armd Regts plus BATUS, repair pool, and training.....all 13 would be Type 43.......this was before the Tidworth Option discussions though.

Okay,, yet as I wrote - there were 4 x Type 57 Chally 1 regts (as I remember) plus 3 with 43 tanks - yet only 1 "purposefully" (the HC Type 43 regt) - the other 2 were "Type 43 de facto" as having 1 sqn in Cyprus and 1 sqn in Berlin -  thus HAVING those "lacking" Challys at hand - am I correct?

Or these 3 regts in case of war would be "filled-in" with Mobilised Cat A Reserve Chieftain squadrons?

 

BTW: have you got that book?

https://www.helion.co.uk/military-history-books/battlegroup-the-lessons-of-the-unfought-battles-of-the-cold-war.php

I've already ordered it and it may be shipped to Poland within 2 weeks (damn that Brexit!)

And this one seems also promising, though a little bit thin...:

https://www.helion.co.uk/military-history-books/never-ready-natos-flexible-response-strategy-1968-1989.php

 

Edited by Darth Stalin
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Your post about Challenger 1 reminded me of something. If I remember rightly, the Challenger 2 buy  was supposed to be something like 150 tanks, which would replace the remainder of Chieftain, which would then be employed in other roles. Possibly the intended Mk12 and Mk13 would just be intended in training roles in places like Suffield or Salisbury Plain, or possibly Berlin. But it seems to me likely they intended at least some of those to cascade to TA RAC Units. And of course potential remounts as discussed.

I dont think there would have been 10 days. I was reading an interesting CIA report that talked of there being an option for the Soviets to invade West Germany with JUST the DDR and possibly the Czech based units. They could have mobilized that a lot quicker than NATO could I think.

 

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
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49 minutes ago, Darth Stalin said:

Thanks for more info and explanations, Louie!

BTW:

Okay,, yet as I wrote - there were 4 x Type 57 Chally 1 regts (as I remember) plus 3 with 43 tanks - yet only 1 "purposefully" (the HC Type 43 regt) - the other 2 were "Type 43 de facto" as having 1 sqn in Cyprus and 1 sqn in Berlin -  thus HAVING those "lacking" Challys at hand - am I correct?

Or these 3 regts in case of war would be "filled-in" with Mobilised Cat A Reserve Chieftain squadrons?

 

BTW: have you got that book?

https://www.helion.co.uk/military-history-books/battlegroup-the-lessons-of-the-unfought-battles-of-the-cold-war.php

I've already ordered it and it may be shipped to Poland within 2 weeks (damn that Brexit!)

And this one seems also promising, though a little bit thin...:

https://www.helion.co.uk/military-history-books/never-ready-natos-flexible-response-strategy-1968-1989.php

 

Darth,

you are correct, the in-role HC Armd Regt only had three Sqns as what would have been the fourth was detailed to the HCMR which had a TTW role as MHD (Inf but changing to Recce for London District as per plans). AFAIK from reading Regimental Journals, the two other Regts, when their Sqns went to Berlin/Cyprus, were equipped with Chally, they would just be stored in Barracks. Thus, as I may have mentioned, it would have been entirely possible and logical for one of those CAT A WMR Sqns to take over those MBTS (Berlin Sqn would stay in-situ but there was a JTP to fly back the Cyprus Sqn). BTW DRAC and his staff at the time were reviewing which Type of Regt, 43 or 57, would be best tactically (and Treasury wise) they were also looking at 3 vs 4 Tank Tps (DRAC preferred 3 MBTs per Tp) If you see in my doc, 4/7 DG were using 4 MBTs per Tp with and additional MBT at RHQ making it a Type 58 Regt.

Finally, FM Bramall relayed in his diaries that experience from WW2 was that the most tanks that could effectively be managed in battle was approximately 45.

Now for the books….

Battlegroup! Is on its way……

Never Ready…….I have been corresponding with Dr. Kenton White in regards and we went back and forth providing documents to each other. I hopefully helped him with the book, which I already ordered also. I believe Helion commissioned him for a couple of more Cold War books.

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50 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Your post about Challenger 1 reminded me of something. If I remember rightly, the Challenger 2 buy  was supposed to be something like 150 tanks, which would replace the remainder of Chieftain, which would then be employed in other roles. Possibly the intended Mk12 and Mk13 would just be intended in training roles in places like Suffield or Salisbury Plain, or possibly Berlin. But it seems to me likely they intended at least some of those to cascade to TA RAC Units. And of course potential remounts as discussed.

I dont think there would have been 10 days. I was reading an interesting CIA report that talked of there being an option for the Soviets to invade West Germany with JUST the DDR and possibly the Czech based units. They could have mobilized that a lot quicker than NATO could I think.

 

Stu,

First off, I haven’t forgotten (well I did last night) I will get you that Op Granby ADR info.

The Chally 2 buy, before Options, was intended to be in the neighborhood of 800, to replace Chieftain and then Chally 1. That number is direct from Dick Lord the RAC Historian. The Chally 1 would become WMR with possibly the most updated Chieftains. But many of the older Mks were designated to be recycled as AVRE, AVLB etc (and possibly, if the cash was there, a SP AD Gun) along with the ITO.

 

Finally, as for the 10 Days, I have been talking to some Old & Bold Intell Types, including some BRIXMIS guys. Even though NATO was surprised in 1968 and 1979, they seemed confident that 10 days was the worse case scenario. 

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yeah no problem mate. I've still got a Chieftain user manual I mean to upload.

I'm a bit dubious about that. If anything I've read the C2 buy was enhanced by the MOD to take the C1 out of service, and provide a base for Vickers to export. I also cannot understand the logic of upgunning Chieftain to L30 if they were going to go to 800 C2s.

In Tony Geraghtys book on Brixmis, they relate an incident when several Soviet divisions were able to go to their deployment areas in complete radio scilence. Nobody at GCHQ would believe them, they didn't pick up a thing. 

There is a CIA report called CIA-RDP05T00644R000601570001-5 which gives an estimate the Soviets could do something like this, and go to war from a standing start. They further say an emergency mobilisation could launch a 2 front war in as little as 4 days. The 1984 report says it might take longer than that  but unhelpfully doesn't say how long. You idly wonder if they changed it just because 4 days made them uncomfortable.

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In Tom Clancey's book 'Red Storm Rising', a group of Soviet generals discuss wither to go with a Soviet invasion plan with no warning time for the Soviet troops to prepare. An "Up And At Them Approach". Which could of worked but in the end the generals decide not to go with it.

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