Culture Wars

[Ivanhoe]

3 hours ago, R011 said:

I wouldn't recommend the Bible to kids before middle school because even in modern translations, it's too complex for their reading level.  By middle school they should be able to undrstand modern translations, if not the KJV,  and be able to ead it with a minimum of adolescent giggling at the dirty bits.

I'm going to guess that of today's teenagers, those from uni-educated parent(s) would be able to handle KJV no problem, but kids from a non-educational background might struggle even with modern translations. 

And from what I hear from parents and a few teachers in my AO, not a few teachers would struggle as well. 

Before getting into tricky subjects, I'd be happier if they would bring back phonics and get reading scores back up. 

[rmgill]

On 6/4/2023 at 3:44 AM, BansheeOne said:

Sometimes you get the trolls, sometimes the trolls get you.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/utah-parent-upset-book-bans-gets-bible-pulled-school-shelves-expose-ba-rcna87450

As Shapiro notes, it's like the new norm that's neutral on the issue of murder. Thus, the neutral position is that murder is allowed. 

The norm is that pederasty, buggery, promiscuity, all that is ok. That's a neutral position. 

 

[Skywalkre]

6 hours ago, R011 said:

I wouldn't recommend the Bible to kids before middle school because even in modern translations, it's too complex for their reading level.  By middle school they should be able to undrstand modern translations, if not the KJV,  and be able to ead it with a minimum of adolescent giggling at the dirty bits.

If you can't read the original Hebrew or Greek and understand the nuances of the language of the time... it doesn't matter what translation you're reading.  Unfortunately so few can actually do that today (it's on my own list of to do's... but it's years away).

[R011]

1 hour ago, Skywalkre said:

If you can't read the original Hebrew or Greek and understand the nuances of the language of the time... it doesn't matter what translation you're reading.  Unfortunately so few can actually do that today (it's on my own list of to do's... but it's years away).

For serious scholars and some theologians perhaps.  For ordinary people,not so much.

[Rick]

It is not so much which translation or version of the Bible one uses but the way one lives their life reading their Bible. One does not need to be knowledgeable of ancient languages to understand what the Bible is and means. 

When children see and hear their parents reading the Bible and living their lives  to Biblical principles then the translation and/or version is not all that important. 

[DB]

As children we were given a combination of excerpts from what was largely the KJV, but for complete stories they were always second-hand retellings rather than direct scripture. The first literal bible readings were at 14-15 or so, with a complete copy of a modern translation of Luke.

[Murph]

SO true, so very, very true about the left:

 

[lucklucky]

https://nypost.com/2023/06/05/cnns-bakari-sellers-calls-nikki-haley-white-governor-after-town-hall/

[Ivanhoe]

 

[Ivanhoe]

 

[Rick]

Not seen on any other major news network except this one

 

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/lefts-problem-men-bible

[X-Files]

On 5/23/2023 at 8:01 AM, rmgill said:

That's a very persuasive argument. 

Damn she got fat.

[X-Files]

1 hour ago, Rick said:

Not seen on any other major news network except this one

 

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/lefts-problem-men-bible

 

 

[Stargrunt6]

7 hours ago, X-Files said:

Damn she got fat.

And very very ugly.

[sunday]

Just now, Stargrunt6 said:

And very very ugly.

There is only a small step from "very" to "very, very", methinks.

[Stargrunt6]

On 6/5/2023 at 11:12 PM, Skywalkre said:

If you can't read the original Hebrew or Greek and understand the nuances of the language of the time... it doesn't matter what translation you're reading.  Unfortunately so few can actually do that today (it's on my own list of to do's... but it's years away).

By that logic, you can't even read Don Quixote or Grimms Fairy Tales.

[sunday]

5 minutes ago, Stargrunt6 said:

By that logic, you can't even read Don Quixote or Grimms Fairy Tales.

Don Quixote, yes. There have not much evolution of the Spanish language.

Of course, I am able to read Shakespeare in the original, but not Beowulf.

[Stargrunt6]

Just now, sunday said:

Don Quixote, yes. There have not much evolution of the Spanish language.

Of course, I am able to read Shakespeare in the original, but not Beowulf.

I meant translated into English 

Shakespeare reminds me that it's ok if I don't understand someone else speaking Spanish.

[Stargrunt6]

14 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

 

Not sure if they cleaned out the condoms.... 

 

[DB]

18 minutes ago, sunday said:

Don Quixote, yes. There have not much evolution of the Spanish language.

Of course, I am able to read Shakespeare in the original, but not Beowulf.

There's enough oddities in Shakespearean vocabulary to cause native speakers to raise an eyebrow occasionally, but overall it's much more readable than the other example you mentioned earlier - Chaucer's Canterbury Tales are much trickier. of course, it would be banned in Florida schools for the somewhat saucy themes.

Apparently, the categorisation is as follows:

Beowulf is "Old English" (pre Norman Conquest)

Chaucer is "Middle English" (to about 1500)

Shakespeare is "Early Modern English" (to about 1750)

Presumably the arrival of the Normans helped trigger the big differences between Old and Middle English.

[Ivanhoe]

1 hour ago, DB said:

of course, it would be banned in Florida schools for the somewhat saucy themes.

They aren't banned in Florida or anywhere else in the US because they are the writings of Dead White Males. School libraries and curricula were being sanitized from un-PC content back in the 1970s when I was in high school in California. Most actual book banning is done sotto voce, older books are simply disappeared. If I'm not mistaken, the writings of Frederick Douglass have already vanished, and Booker T. as well. Those two being notorious white supremacists of course. 

I hope you are being facetious, else the above sentence would indicate abysmal awareness of actual reality. It continues to astound me how much of the world has bought into the "book banning" nonsense being brayed at full volume these days. 

 

[DB]

Of course I was - it was merely a hat tip to the bawdy nature of the Canterbury Tales. Sometimes you guys are so touchy.

[R011]

1 hour ago, DB said:

Of course I was - it was merely a hat tip to the bawdy nature of the Canterbury Tales. Sometimes you guys are so touchy.

I rather suspect that Chaucer is a bit advanced for middle school and even most high school students.

[BansheeOne]

Heinlein would probably be too saucy for Florida schools. Free love! Pedophilia! Incest! Transgender time-travellers fathering themselves with their pre-transition self!

[NickM]

4 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

They aren't banned in Florida or anywhere else in the US because they are the writings of Dead White Males. School libraries and curricula were being sanitized from un-PC content back in the 1970s when I was in high school in California. Most actual book banning is done sotto voce, older books are simply disappeared. If I'm not mistaken, the writings of Frederick Douglass have already vanished, and Booker T. as well. Those two being notorious white supremacists of course. 

I hope you are being facetious, else the above sentence would indicate abysmal awareness of actual reality. It continues to astound me how much of the world has bought into the "book banning" nonsense being brayed at full volume these days. 

 

Definitely older books going 'bye bye'. My County MAIN library used to be old and dreary but it was stacked to the rafters with 2 floors of books of all kinds (lotsa older novels, even off the wall stuff like The Centurions by Larteguy etc). Now the 'spanking brand new' Library that was built in it's place is nice and sunny, with lots of sitting room but it's virtually 'bare' for a 'Main' library---older books in non fiction are apprently gone or sold off (things like Samuel Elliott Morrison's WW2 navy history; the official US Army history of WW2; Time Life's WW2 and Vietnam series, the US Marine Corps in Vietnam official histories  are all gone. (of course some of the above are of questionable use, but still).