Stuart Galbraith Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 Tell them white men stopped slavery, not anyone else. Royal navy even had an Anti Slavery squadron, and other countries cooperated. Britain stopped the slave trade. It did nothing to stop slavery until much later. It was until the 1830's it was fully resolved in the Carribean for example. In fact the arguments for stopping the trade in slaves I gather were to make the slave owner's look after their slaves better. Moral perhaps, but not so moral as to actually stop owning them.And Britain deserves much credit for that... And never gets. Is there any nation that did more to destroy slavery all over the world? It was white Christians who did that. Yes, but it was also white Christians that founded the cross atlantic trade. Ive no figures to support it, but I suspect for all the abuse we throw at Muslims for founding the trade in White Christians, they didnt traffic half as many Slaves as we British did, if only because of Hull size. Doesnt make it any better of course. Sure, we did it right in the end, but we have to give due credit for those descended from the trade that we were also responsible for it. Two sides of the same coin. Both stories need to be told and understood.Christianity was central to one and not the other. When Spain encountered the natives of the New World, there were passionate discussions as to what these beings were. If they were animals, they could be killed and enslaved. If they were fellow men, Spain had an obligation to protect them and bring the word of God to them. In the end laws were passed for the latter, which unfortunately were often ignored. Regardless of the final outcome, this was unprecedented and it was as uniquely Christian as the later abolitionist movement. How many non-Christian societies have abolished slavery without foreign gunboats on their shores? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valladolid_debate Precious few, I dont disagree with you. The problem with debates about slavery is they are always bent along political lines. When we British talk about it, we focus, perhaps understandably, on abolition and the role of the RN in stopping the trade. When Americans talk about it, they talk about the Amistad or Abraham Lincoln. The muslims best I can tell, dont much talk about it at all. Nobody will touch the apalling fact that Black Africans were involved in the trade of slaverly. And few of us stop to think about the wider exploitation of slaves, whether its the Vikings or Russian Serfdom. All theses arguments are bent one way or another through a political hue to use as brickbats, but as far as I can tell, we have all done it, and all nations and ethnic groups have tried to avoid the worst of their responsibility for it. About the only group I can think of that werent great slaveowners were the Jews.
Ivanhoe Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 Mikel, thanks for the reference, as usual learned something about important history here. However, rebuts on the article: "But the fact that the Valladolid debate took place shows that the Spanish were concerned about the ethical consequence of their conquests, often more so than the invading forces in North America where the extermination of the native Americans was publicly accepted until much later." - Native Americans weren't "exterminated" by the invading forces. In fact, the vast majority of European immigrants to North America weren't "forces" at all, rather religious and economic refugees. Disease, specifically smallpox, decimated native tribes. - Its been noted that the Spanish introduced smallpox to the New World, not France or England. - Its also been noted that the debate on slavery before, during, and after the Constitutional Convention was one of, if not the, earliest discussion of outlawing slavery en toto.
Ivanhoe Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 The problem with debates about slavery is they are always bent along political lines. When we British talk about it, we focus, perhaps understandably, on abolition and the role of the RN in stopping the trade. When Americans talk about it, they talk about the Amistad or Abraham Lincoln. The muslims best I can tell, dont much talk about it at all. Nobody will touch the apalling fact that Black Africans were involved in the trade of slaverly. And few of us stop to think about the wider exploitation of slaves, whether its the Vikings or Russian Serfdom. All theses arguments are bent one way or another through a political hue to use as brickbats, but as far as I can tell, we have all done it, and all nations and ethnic groups have tried to avoid the worst of their responsibility for it. About the only group I can think of that werent great slaveowners were the Jews. Americans also talk about Jefferson et al, who debated the subject during the 1780s and 1790s. The Israelites had slaves, but slavery was never a big part of their economy TMK. As for the rather selective approach to discussing slavery, welcome to Critical Theory.
WRW Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 Tell them white men stopped slavery, not anyone else. Royal navy even had an Anti Slavery squadron, and other countries cooperated. Britain stopped the slave trade. It did nothing to stop slavery until much later. It was until the 1830's it was fully resolved in the Carribean for example. In fact the arguments for stopping the trade in slaves I gather were to make the slave owner's look after their slaves better. Moral perhaps, but not so moral as to actually stop owning them.And Britain deserves much credit for that... And never gets. Is there any nation that did more to destroy slavery all over the world? It was white Christians who did that. Yes, but it was also white Christians that founded the cross atlantic trade. Ive no figures to support it, but I suspect for all the abuse we throw at Muslims for founding the trade in White Christians, they didnt traffic half as many Slaves as we British did, if only because of Hull size. Doesnt make it any better of course. Sure, we did it right in the end, but we have to give due credit for those descended from the trade that we were also responsible for it. Two sides of the same coin. Both stories need to be told and understood. Slavery and its perception in the Muslim world is as I see it - a white Christian act. Bring up otherwise and very often you get a blank look if not immediate outright denial.One reason for not as much physical evidence in terms of descendants is that the black slaves were very often seen as disposable commodity - easily replaced, castration was extremely common. Interestingly slaves - regardless of colour or origin, could find themselves promoted into the administration and indeed the military - the Janissary and I think the Mameluke were originally slaves.
Jeff Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 https://www.polygon.com/2020/6/10/21287154/racist-magic-the-gathering-cards-banned-removed-from-database-wizards-apology On Wednesday, Magic: The Gathering publisher Wizards of the Coast took unprecedented measures to remove racist cards from its game. Seven cards in all, dating back to 1994, are now banned from play. Their images will also being removed from the game’s official online database. I don't know how Magic The Gathering works, but hard to believe this is a priority item right now.Someday, playing chess with black and white pieces will get harrassment for being racists. They'll just change the rules so that the black (should I capitalize the B now?) pieces always win.
Jeff Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 Congratulations, NYC just went from one of the safest big cities in America to Shitcago 2.0 19 Victims Injured in Saturday Morning NYC Shootings: NYPDThe NYPD says its officers are investigating 21 shootings over the course of 36 hours that injured at least 28 peopleThe police department says it's investigating 13 separate shootings that occurred in the 12 hours since midnight.
Ssnake Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 https://www.polygon.com/2020/6/10/21287154/racist-magic-the-gathering-cards-banned-removed-from-database-wizards-apology On Wednesday, Magic: The Gathering publisher Wizards of the Coast took unprecedented measures to remove racist cards from its game. Seven cards in all, dating back to 1994, are now banned from play. Their images will also being removed from the game’s official online database. I don't know how Magic The Gathering works, but hard to believe this is a priority item right now.Someday, playing chess with black and white pieces will get harrassment for being racists. The white Bishop is clearly as much wearing a Klan hood, as, to pick a random example, Governor Northam.
Nobu Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 They'll just change the rules so that the black (should I capitalize the B now?) pieces always win. Ever play roulette?
Jeff Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 Frog in the pot. How many times have we warned that the Left was just getting started only to have the Left apologists call us crazy conspiracy nuts for saying it and then a couple of years later we're exactly where we warned we would be and picking up speed. WATCH: John Oliver mocked Trump in 2017 for suggesting Washington and Jefferson statues would fall
DKTanker Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 Frog in the pot. How many times have we warned that the Left was just getting started only to have the Left apologists call us crazy conspiracy nuts for saying it and then a couple of years later we're exactly where we warned we would be and picking up speed. WATCH: John Oliver mocked Trump in 2017 for suggesting Washington and Jefferson statues would fallFor many years I wondered how long it would take for the inevitable crash to the left, I thought it would interesting to witness. But I always managed to convince myself that while the trend would be ever downward and leftward, I'd be long dead and buried before the transformation to LW totalitarianism was complete. Now I'm sure I'll be able to fully witness it and wishing I wouldn't have been around to see it. A couple of days ago I posted an article from the Federalist that suggests that this leftward spinning spiral can only happen because there's been little to no push back from the right, and while it's true that there hasn't been pushback, I'm now not convinced that would be the answer. I rather think that the push back has to come from Leftist leadership because, if it comes from the right then we are looking at civil war. Hot or cold, I couldn't say, but that would be the end result of pushback from the right. And yet for many of the same reasons there will be no pushback from the right, there won't be pushback from moderate Leftists. First, they're good with being on the winning side, but more importantly, they want to remain in good graces with the winning side lest they too be denounced and martyred. Figuratively or otherwise. I talk to many acquaintances I'm made over the years, left and right, and not a single one from the left has said, "I'm a liberal, yes, but this is not what I signed up for." They're good with it. However they manage to rationalize it, they're good with it. And we see the same from the left leaning on this grate site, they are all good with it. They'd rather see statutes of Abraham Lincoln toppled and destroyed than to renounce the LW maddness.
Stargrunt6 Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 Who had "Michael Jackson's daughter will play lesbian Jesus in 2020?" https://nypost.com/2020/04/15/paris-jackson-will-play-jesus-christ-in-bizarre-new-thriller/
DKTanker Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 https://therightscoop.com/watch-blm-founder-admits-group-is-trained-marxists-and-on-cnn-tells-tapper-their-goal-is-get-trump-out/ The big liberal lie is always about their own actions, not ours. Sure, the media lies about things conservatives do, say, or think, but that’s small potatoes compared to the BIG lie they tell about their lefty mob allies.“Nobody is saying take away the guns,” they say as they take away guns. “Nobody is saying get rid of the Founders,” as they tear down the statues of the Founders. “Nobody is saying we want Marxism,” they say, as they SAY OUT LOUD THEY WANT MARXISM.Yeah, this video shared by David Reaboi yesterday is that admission, and it’s in this Black Lives Matter co-founder’s own words.“Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers. We are trained Marxists,” says Black Lives Matter Global Network co-founder Patrisse Cullors in the 2015 interview. “We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories.”
Jeff Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 Frog in the pot. How many times have we warned that the Left was just getting started only to have the Left apologists call us crazy conspiracy nuts for saying it and then a couple of years later we're exactly where we warned we would be and picking up speed. WATCH: John Oliver mocked Trump in 2017 for suggesting Washington and Jefferson statues would fallFor many years I wondered how long it would take for the inevitable crash to the left, I thought it would interesting to witness. But I always managed to convince myself that while the trend would be ever downward and leftward, I'd be long dead and buried before the transformation to LW totalitarianism was complete. Now I'm sure I'll be able to fully witness it and wishing I wouldn't have been around to see it. A couple of days ago I posted an article from the Federalist that suggests that this leftward spinning spiral can only happen because there's been little to no push back from the right, and while it's true that there hasn't been pushback, I'm now not convinced that would be the answer. I rather think that the push back has to come from Leftist leadership because, if it comes from the right then we are looking at civil war. Hot or cold, I couldn't say, but that would be the end result of pushback from the right. And yet for many of the same reasons there will be no pushback from the right, there won't be pushback from moderate Leftists. First, they're good with being on the winning side, but more importantly, they want to remain in good graces with the winning side lest they too be denounced and martyred. Figuratively or otherwise. I talk to many acquaintances I'm made over the years, left and right, and not a single one from the left has said, "I'm a liberal, yes, but this is not what I signed up for." They're good with it. However they manage to rationalize it, they're good with it. And we see the same from the left leaning on this grate site, they are all good with it. They'd rather see statutes of Abraham Lincoln toppled and destroyed than to renounce the LW maddness. The gas lighting is on overdrive. You can't watch five minutes of TV without a channel or product stating how they support BLM, often with millions of dollars. This is a radical Marxist revolutionary group and they're talking about and supporting them like they are the YMCA.
Rick Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 I'm not certain that President Trump will be re-elected. I’m afraid it does not matter if Trump will stay President for extra few years or not: looking from another side of Arctic Pole , I see no signs of situation with social split in USA healed – but, contrary, all signs of situation deteriorating. Events we see now are rooted back in decades (as well as collapse of USSR was rooted in decisions made in 1960th), so all Trump could do now is to slow down the process for some time, but not for long. The only thing that could possibly reverse the situation is some sort of white rural middle class and blue collar (plus, may be, what is left of industrial working class) uprising taking full control of entire country (including big cities) but it is extremely unlikely event. https://www.vox.com/2020/3/9/21151095/black-women-trump-gop-conservatism-gap-2020 Roman, the above U.S. liberal-leaning post gives, imo, some good, basic input into U.S. voting patterns. The white middle-class, especially men, will go Republican. And more non-white men are at least leaning toward Trump. It is men who will propel Trump to his second term. Also, hopefully, the U.S. Congress, ie House of Representatives, will go Republican. Again, just my opinion, at this point, the election will go to Trump and Congress will go, barely, Republican. Thank you for the article – I am surprised that this issues, even in situation when every % point of votes are of significant importance for US and global politics, are sort of underresearched. After almost two decades in advertising media research I expected at least equal level of research to one in consumer-oriented business. But, newer the less, my main point was different: I do not see this or that person elected President as cause of society changes – I see it as side effect of society changes. Trump election was, as for me, side effect of significant part of US society negative attitude to society changes they see in US. But were this society changes reversed under President Trump? Was urbanization reversed? Was demographic trend of US population becoming more and more non-white reversed, for example? (note I do not believe this or that skin color is making person better, but it is safe to assume skmin color is often indication of belonging to this or that political and economic tradition). Good observation on your behalf of why Trump was elected. My deeply held beliefs are what in the U.S. is called Conservative Christian, which explained in a single sentence is "The least amount of government and the least amount of taxes as needed."To me this would mean the end of all federal (national) government welfare programs. Others on this site can accurately recommend other federal government agencies that need elimination.In the U.S. the non-conservative side are liberals, using U.S. terms I would say they are communists. All U.S. liberals want is absolute power over others. This is the definition of evil and why liberals are evil! That part of society that opposes Trump are liberals, albeit some less so than others. This part of society has "doubled down" on their unsuccessful attempts to illegally remove Trump from office. As to your urbanization question, as a rule, the more urban an area the more anti-Trump said area becomes. With the liberal hate groups now at this time dominating the news and the chaos such stupidity brings, it will be interesting to see if more of the people in these cities you never hear about vote for Trump and the Republicans. I honestly don't know about how rapidly the trend is in the U.S. becoming "less white." Skin color is a card often way over played by liberals which contributed to Trump's election and, imo, will play a larger role in his re-election. As I mentioned earlier, imo of course, I believe more non-white men will vote for Trump than they did before. Again, some astute observations on your part. I must admit I do not watch television or subscribe to newspapers. All of my news information is via the internet, Moody radio--an excellent program, and National Public Radio -- a liberal show.
Jeff Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 I guess reparations aren't enough now. Listen to what they say they want to do, they're telling us openly. "Oh no they don't, you're just a right wing conspiracy nut!", see my post above. “Some White People May Have to Die for Black Communities to Be Made Whole” – Far Left UGA Teaching Assistant on Black Lives Matter Movement “I’m confused why that is so controversial,” Osei-Frampong said.
Murph Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 I guess reparations aren't enough now. Listen to what they say they want to do, they're telling us openly. "Oh no they don't, you're just a right wing conspiracy nut!", see my post above. “Some White People May Have to Die for Black Communities to Be Made Whole” – Far Left UGA Teaching Assistant on Black Lives Matter Movement “I’m confused why that is so controversial,” Osei-Frampong said. I was laughed at, and accused of being a right wing troll, so now I have been proven almost 100% correct.
Nobu Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 The left is not winning because of the voting tendencies of non-White men. It is winning because it is either more competent and more unified, or its opposition is not. Based on the unity and competence exemplified by Occupy, getting shot for one's Jordans, BLM looters hitting the minority-owned businesses that serve them, CHAZ, and the level of black on black violence in America, it is likely not the former.
JasonJ Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 K-pop fans know whats best. Amid ongoing protests in America against racism and police brutality, a global legion of K-pop fans has emerged as an important ally for the Black Lives Matter (BLM) movement. Fans of South Korea's popular music industry have raised funds for BLM and mobilised to overload social media hashtags used by its opponents , earning appreciation from protesters for their political activism. Some may have been surprised by their impact, but K-pop observers note fans have long organised support for social and political causes as well as their favourite artists. This support has, however, also raised questions about systemic racism in the industry and fandom, leading to calls for K-pop to address its own complicated relationship with race. Fancams to the rescueFollowing the outbreak of protests in the US, sparked by the death of black man George Floyd , the Dallas Police Department asked people to share videos of "illegal activity protests" through the iWatch Dallas app. K-pop fans worldwide responded by inundating it with fan-recorded videos, known as fancams, and memes of various K-pop artists, in an effort to prevent police from tracking protesters' actions. Barely a day later, the app was reported to be experiencing technical difficulties though Dallas Police would not say if it was due to the fancams. K-pop fans also spammed hashtags used to oppose BLM on social media, such as #AllLivesMatter, #BlueLivesMatter and #WhiteLivesMatter. Though this made such hashtags trend higher, it also made it harder for their original messages to be seen. K-pop fans, who have previously been derided online and criticised for "fancam spam", were celebrated as valued allies of the protestors. Many K-pop artists voiced their support for the movement on Twitter and Instagram, and some donated to the cause. When popular boy band BTS announced a $1m (£784,000) donation, fan group One In An Army (OIAA) organised its own fundraising drive and matched the amount in less than 24 hours . History of political activismTo many outside K-pop fandom, this political activism and co-ordination was a surprise. However, those who follow K-pop closely consider such fans' organisation and impact perfectly natural. Fans in South Korea and worldwide routinely run well-co-ordinated campaigns to promote their favourite artists and propel them to awards and charts success and greater visibility. These skills are now being applied to the BLM cause. As Hyunsu Yim, a pop culture reporter for The Korea Herald, has noted in a Twitter thread, this is far from the first time K-pop fans have made a political or social impression . He illustrated his point with previous examples of activism: donations to a London charity to fund over 35,000 meals; calls for safer roads in Bangladesh; and Chile's government in 2019 blaming K-pop and other "international influences and media" for domestic protests. K-pop and racismBut while many have praised K-pop fans for their involvement in the protests, some are highlighting the longstanding abuse and harassment of black fans, many of whom have left fandoms as a result. Hashtags like #BlackARMYSMatter and #BlackARMYSEquality trended on Twitter in 2018 after black members of the BTS ARMY complained of racism within the fandom. Fans of other artists have also complained of racism in their communities. Observers also question why K-pop idols - many of whom have expressed support for the US protests - are often silent when it comes to discrimination in South Korea. This may partly be to avoid a backlash from their more conservative fans. Many female idols have been criticised for expressing feminist views, and many who speak up for LGBTQ rights abroad shy away from such issues at home. Agencies may also exercise control over what the performers say. After Denise Kim, a member of rookie girl group Secret Number, expressed her support for BLM on Instagram, her Instagram and SoundCloud accounts were deleted and her agency's Instagram account deleted its latest photo of her. Fans criticised Kim's agency and are now increasingly voicing their outrage about such censorship, as well as calling out idols for hypocrisy. When Amber Liu, a member of girl group f(x), called for George Floyd's killer to be charged with first-degree murder, some pointed out that in 2019 she said that a black man - seen being harassed and arrested in a viral video - "deserved it". For K-pop, a multi-genre industry heavily influenced by black culture and music, the Black Lives Matter movement has highlighted the need for artists and fans to do some soul-searching. But as these protests have shown, their impact on society cannot be underestimated. When harnessed for a cause, K-pop has the potential to make a difference.https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-52996705
Ssnake Posted June 22, 2020 Posted June 22, 2020 The term "useful idiots" comes to mind.I said it before, I'll say it again. Marxism is not only the by far most destructive ideology ever invented by man, it also remains the most dangerous one because it has the potential to infect the minds of young people over and over again under the disguise of seemingly different goals of activists - such as environmentalism, antifascism (who'd not be against fascism, right?), antiracism (who, aside from Klan people, proudly identifies himself as a racist? (unless it's racism against white people, of course)), intersectionalism, postmodernism, ... That way it can hide for a good while its totalitarian nature, and prevent being associated with the disastrous results of Marxism everywhere. Mental inoculation reaches only a small percentage of the population, and it's no surprise that what helps best against this ideology is being targeted with priority by Marxists in the political and in the education system.
Burncycle360 Posted June 22, 2020 Author Posted June 22, 2020 It's literally the anti-civil rights movement, espousing group identity over individuals, and different rules for different groups. It's sad the irony is lost on them, or maybe they're well aware and just don't care.If the Mayor of Seattle, along with the Chief of Police, just unilaterally decided not to enforce the law in a particular area of their city (ie, inner city poor black communities) it would be a shitstorm. Here, it gets a pass because it means they can take a jab at Trump. Meanwhile, people are literally getting shot, plenty of assault and battery going on, along with theft of people's personal property (white people aren't supposed to film) and other self righteous vigilantism. It's what it represents -- lynch mob control. That wasn't so good when it was racist white people doing it, and the same applies here for the same reasons.Their justification of police brutality and systemic racism doesn't wash. Millions of police contacts annually and we're butting up against the baseline of unfortunate shit that's statistically just going to happen. That doesn't mean we don't continue to develop best practices and reform, but to say it's broken is wrong. It's far more difficult to get something that mostly works and improve it 5%, it's far, far easier to make it worse by 50%. Case in point, Chaz is full of people who complained about borders, police abuse, and extrajudicial punishment yet they're now shining examples of it.Turns out it this entire time the only problem they really had with everything that's been going on was that they weren't the ones doing it.
Ssnake Posted June 22, 2020 Posted June 22, 2020 Meanwhile, people are literally getting shot, plenty of assault and battery going on, along with theft of people's personal property (white people aren't supposed to film) and other self righteous vigilantism. It's what it represents -- lynch mob control. The approved expression for this is "Summer of Love", comrade. Their justification of police brutality and systemic racism doesn't wash. Millions of police contacts annually and we're butting up against the baseline of unfortunate shit that's statistically just going to happen.. Still trying to apply facts and reason?Facts are racist.
Jeff Posted June 22, 2020 Posted June 22, 2020 The term "useful idiots" comes to mind.I said it before, I'll say it again. Marxism is not only the by far most destructive ideology ever invented by man, it also remains the most dangerous one because it has the potential to infect the minds of young people over and over again under the disguise of seemingly different goals of activists - such as environmentalism, antifascism (who'd not be against fascism, right?), antiracism (who, aside from Klan people, proudly identifies himself as a racist? (unless it's racism against white people, of course)), intersectionalism, postmodernism, ... That way it can hide for a good while its totalitarian nature, and prevent being associated with the disastrous results of Marxism everywhere. Mental inoculation reaches only a small percentage of the population, and it's no surprise that what helps best against this ideology is being targeted with priority by Marxists in the political and in the education system. Well said.
Jeff Posted June 22, 2020 Posted June 22, 2020 Carmine Sabia@CarmineSabiaThere have been 60 people shot in Chicago this weekend, 9 have died. Among the victims are a 3-year-old and a 13-year-old. Not a word from #BlackLivesMatter. But if a cop shot one of them, during a crime, we would have another month of protests. It is about politics not lives.9:05 AM · Jun 21, 2020https://twitter.com/CarmineSabia/status/1274689901464883201
Jeff Posted June 22, 2020 Posted June 22, 2020 So we've now cancelled everyone on Mount Rushmore so I assume they'll be dynamiting that soon. I'm old enough to remember when we were scoffed at for saying the New Red Guard wouldn't stop at confederate statues. Roosevelt Statue to Be Removed From Museum of Natural HistoryThe equestrian memorial to Theodore Roosevelt has long prompted objections as a symbol of colonialism and racism. "Let me get this straight... they're removing the statue of the Roosevelt who *didn't* put American citizens into internment camps??"
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