Culture Wars

[DKTanker]

7 minutes ago, sunday said:

I've read bad things of Roberts, but this time he did good.

He didn't do anything, that was the problem*.  He agreed with the majority in ruling for Mississippi, he did not concur with the majority when it came to the overturning of R v W and Casey.  Which is rather non-sensical as the only way to get to a ruling for Mississippi is by overturning those other two decisions.  Like I said, Roberts tried to cut the baby in two and everyone who pays attention knows it.

*I'm becoming convinced that Roberts or one of his lackeys was the source of the leak.

[sunday]

28 minutes ago, DKTanker said:

He didn't do anything, that was the problem*.  He agreed with the majority in ruling for Mississippi, he did not concur with the majority when it came to the overturning of R v W and Casey.  Which is rather non-sensical as the only way to get to a ruling for Mississippi is by overturning those other two decisions.  Like I said, Roberts tried to cut the baby in two and everyone who pays attention knows it.

*I'm becoming convinced that Roberts or one of his lackeys was the source of the leak.

Ok, I shall defer to your reasonable judgement.

[Burncycle360]

I would guess the left would prefer abortion being permitted federally so long as Roe vs Wade was decided their way, but would much rather it be up to individual states than be banned federally.  

 

Goes back to double standards, which you'd think they would be wary of when the president can go from savior to "literally hitler" in a single election cycle

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Burncycle360

[urbanoid]

1 hour ago, rmgill said:

It's a question of a couple of things...

Does Roe protect third trimester abortions? There were pushes in the DNC to make this a reality.

Is there a total ban or is it a limit of 20 weeks or 8 weeks? Somewhere else?

Didn't they legalize third trimester abortions in some states anyway?

Roe doesn't protect anything anymore, the SC leaves it to the states... or the federal government, but without the constitutional protection. Legally quite sensible, it's not a constitutional issue.

Will it result in more of the 'undesirables'? I guess it will, good luck to the GOP in 20-30 years. 

[sunday]

I could not begin to...

Antisemite SCOTUS!

[Burncycle360]

Keep in mind the left still believes conservatives almost exclusively to be making theological arguments about being anti abortion when there are perfectly valid secular arguments to being pro life.

 

They also still believe conservatives are almost all pro birth not pro life and are just fine with them being homeless drug addicts denied welfare once they leave the womb, and all you need to get them to vote gun control is show black people with guns.

 

They are fighting a straw man

Edited June 24, 2022 by Burncycle360

[sunday]

2 minutes ago, Burncycle360 said:

Keep in mind the left still believes conservatives almost exclusively to be making theological arguments about being anti abortion when there are perfectly valid secular arguments to being pro life.

That is a very cogent thing to recall now.

My years here have helped me to understand the need of finding non-religious arguments to defend moral stances. Then back home, I got some good people scandalized by the use of secular arguments instead of the perfectly good, and known, faith-based ones. 😄

[Burncycle360]

I only bring it up because I'm seeing a lot of Handmaidens tale costumes on my instagram timeline 🥴

[DKTanker]

30 minutes ago, sunday said:

My years here have helped me to understand the need of finding non-religious arguments to defend moral stances. Then back home, I got some good people scandalized by the use of secular arguments instead of the perfectly good, and known, faith-based ones. 😄

All "faith" based reasoning is fundamentally secular in nature.  You just have to have the courage to set aside faith for a moment to dig into the reasoning.

[rmgill]

1 hour ago, sunday said:

That is a very cogent thing to recall now.

My years here have helped me to understand the need of finding non-religious arguments to defend moral stances. Then back home, I got some good people scandalized by the use of secular arguments instead of the perfectly good, and known, faith-based ones. 😄

You will find the Ben Shapiro never bases his arguments on the bible/torah. 

[rmgill]

1 hour ago, Burncycle360 said:

I only bring it up because I'm seeing a lot of Handmaidens tale costumes on my instagram timeline 🥴

Kinksters living out their fantasies…

[Ivanhoe]

1 hour ago, sunday said:

My years here have helped me to understand the need of finding non-religious arguments to defend moral stances. Then back home, I got some good people scandalized by the use of secular arguments instead of the perfectly good, and known, faith-based ones. 😄

One can have some fun with SecProgs by using Utilitarian-like arguments.

Execute violent criminals after their 2nd felony or 4th misdemeanor.

Outlaw Affirmative Action etc, make non-merit-based selection a felony with a 25 year sentence for the selector on the 1st offense.

Sterilize everyone with an IQ under 100.

[NickM]

3 hours ago, Burncycle360 said:

Keep in mind the left still believes ....all you need to get them to vote gun control is show black people with guns.

 

They are fighting a straw man

Seriously, whoever came up that argument is stupid as f/k.

[NickM]

4 hours ago, sunday said:

I've read bad things of Roberts, but this time he did good.

Edited to add:

Looks like riots this night

 

Well it's 'Suck-ton'...it stands to reason it's gonna riot.

A Y/T vlogger who did fishing vids, actually fished in Stockton and had to practically brandish a glock to avoid getting 'jacked up' for his 'nice cell phone'===One creep was caught on his phone camera making an 'sucker punch' approach with his fist clenched and arm cocked back; then his buddy saw the vlogger's pistol, grabbed his friend by the jacket and dragged him away with a 'have a nice day'.

[17thfabn]

It looks like the abortion bans will be regional. Legal on the West Coast and North East and Illinois. Mixed in much of the rest of the country.

I'm willing to bet there will be a big push for tele-health visits to prescribe abortion pills (Mifepristone ) for women in states that ban abortion.

Some liberal groups have talked about providing transportation from states that ban abortion to those that allow it.  This would be a major expense for these groups.

This will be the next big fight. Some states will try to out law the abortion pills. The U.S. attorney general has said they can't. This will end up in federal court and eventually the U.S. Supreme Court.

https://www.guttmacher.org/article/2021/10/26-states-are-certain-or-likely-ban-abortion-without-roe-heres-which-ones-and-why

https://time.com/6191270/abortion-pills-bans-fda-merrick-garland/

 

[seahawk]

This ruling is a first step in healing American society. Return to basic American values, drop the woke craziness.

[sunday]

12 hours ago, DKTanker said:

All "faith" based reasoning is fundamentally secular in nature.  You just have to have the courage to set aside faith for a moment to dig into the reasoning.

That is a very old question, studied by St. Thomas Aquinas among others, and Pope St. John Paul II published an encyclical on the matter:

Quote

Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth; and God has placed in the human heart a desire to know the truth—in a word, to know himself—so that, by knowing and loving God, men and women may also come to the fullness of truth about themselves (cf. Ex 33:18; Ps 27:8-9; 63:2-3; Jn 14:8; 1 Jn 3:2).

Quote

Although times change and knowledge increases, it is possible to discern a core of philosophical insight within the history of thought as a whole. Consider, for example, the principles of non-contradiction, finality and causality, as well as the concept of the person as a free and intelligent subject, with the capacity to know God, truth and goodness. Consider as well certain fundamental moral norms which are shared by all. These are among the indications that, beyond different schools of thought, there exists a body of knowledge which may be judged a kind of spiritual heritage of humanity. It is as if we had come upon an implicit philosophy, as a result of which all feel that they possess these principles, albeit in a general and unreflective way. Precisely because it is shared in some measure by all, this knowledge should serve as a kind of reference-point for the different philosophical schools. Once reason successfully intuits and formulates the first universal principles of being and correctly draws from them conclusions which are coherent both logically and ethically, then it may be called right reason or, as the ancients called it, orthós logos, recta ratio.

11 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

One can have some fun with SecProgs by using Utilitarian-like arguments.

Execute violent criminals after their 2nd felony or 4th misdemeanor.

Outlaw Affirmative Action etc, make non-merit-based selection a felony with a 25 year sentence for the selector on the 1st offense.

Sterilize everyone with an IQ under 100.

Utilitarian arguments are blunt, but could be quite effective:

Person A: "You can not force children whose native tongue is X to use language Y in their education. That is again children's rights and UNESCO guidelines."

Person B: "Language Y needs protection, not forcing their use in education would mean the extinction of language Y."

Person A: "So what? There have been good software written in FORTRAN or COBOL, but non many people would cry if those two programming languages disappear."

[sunday]

14 hours ago, rmgill said:

You will find the Ben Shapiro never bases his arguments on the bible/torah. 

Well, Shapiro is perhaps not the best example of cultural warrior on the side of Good and Beautiful...

Also this:

Edited June 25, 2022 by sunday

[sunday]

Next target of woke rage: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

 

[R011]

10 hours ago, 17thfabn said:

It looks like the abortion bans will be regional. Legal on the West Coast and North East and Illinois. Mixed in much of the rest of the country.

I'm willing to bet there will be a big push for tele-health visits to prescribe abortion pills (Mifepristone ) for women in states that ban abortion.

Some liberal groups have talked about providing transportation from states that ban abortion to those that allow it.  This would be a major expense for these groups.

This will be the next big fight. Some states will try to out law the abortion pills. The U.S. attorney general has said they can't. This will end up in federal court and eventually the U.S. Supreme Court.

https://www.guttmacher.org/article/2021/10/26-states-are-certain-or-likely-ban-abortion-without-roe-heres-which-ones-and-why

https://time.com/6191270/abortion-pills-bans-fda-merrick-garland/

 

They could do things like provide rides and organize protests that attract all the usual suspects and alienate moderates- or they can try to find and ally with pro-choice conservatives and support them in Republican primaries.  That's a bit hard to do when pro-life activists tend to also be hardcore leftists who think anyone to the right of Bernie Sanders is a Nazi misogynist.

[rmgill]

1 hour ago, sunday said:

Well, Shapiro is perhaps not the best example of cultural warrior on the side of Good and Beautiful...

When was that and was there a larger set of tweets showing the larger story? 

Given where the Daily Wire is positioned, overall I'd have to disagree with your conclusion. Have you listened to him break things down on the current case at hand? 

[sunday]

Not much free time for conservatives in name only, truth to be told.

[Ivanhoe]

12 hours ago, 17thfabn said:

It looks like the abortion bans will be regional. Legal on the West Coast and North East and Illinois. Mixed in much of the rest of the country.

I haven't read anything from a serious author about an outright ban.

What is really going on? Some hints here;

https://reason.com/2019/01/16/deregulate-the-pill/

[Burncycle360]

Coworker said "did you hear? The surpreme court banned abortions..."

 

🤨 

[sunday]

2 hours ago, Burncycle360 said:

Coworker said "did you hear? The surpreme court banned abortions..."

 

🤨

From the first page of the syllabus of the ruling itself:

Quote

Held: The Constitution does not confer a right to abortion; Roe and Casey are overruled; and the authority to regulate abortion is returned to the people and their elected representatives. Pp. 8–79.

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by sunday