JasonJ Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Powerpack, thermal imager, digital fire control system, laser range finder, muzzle reference sensor, crosswind sensor, ...?It may depend on how dependent the fruitation of those subsystems were to the MBT70 program. Maybe they would have been developed even without the MBT70? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKTanker Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Powerpack, thermal imager, digital fire control system, laser range finder, muzzle reference sensor, crosswind sensor, ...?Not the powerpack, the MBT70 had a diesel. The M1 famously does not. Thermal imagers for AFVs weren't yet a thing. LRF was in its infancy at the time of the MBT70. Different fire control system, that of the MBT70 was electrical analog, the M1 is digital. MBT 70 didn't have an MRS. MBT 70 may or may not have accounted for environmental factors such as xwind, but those ideas predated the MBT 70 (Nordin bombsight). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogDodger Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 So 13 M7/M7E2 were completed, 7 were near completion (and may only have required acceptance trials), and at least 41 were in progress.Good to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssnake Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020  Powerpack, thermal imager, digital fire control system, laser range finder, muzzle reference sensor, crosswind sensor, ...?Not the powerpack, the MBT70 had a diesel. The M1 famously does not. Thermal imagers for AFVs weren't yet a thing. LRF was in its infancy at the time of the MBT70. Different fire control system, that of the MBT70 was electrical analog, the M1 is digital. MBT 70 didn't have an MRS. MBT 70 may or may not have accounted for environmental factors such as xwind, but those ideas predated the MBT 70 (Nordin bombsight). But suppose the MBT70 had been a success, what a disaster! It would have been introduced just before all this and the newfangled British composite armor had been available. It would have been a "successful" development and yet a dog, and it might have delayed the introduction of a proper tank for another 15 years or more.Seen in isolation the project was terrible, yes, but it delayed the introduction of a new generation MBT just enough to allow the introduction of really good ones, and it helped to weed out everything that didn't work while allowing the introduction of innovations that did. (And the powerpack at least made it into the Leopard 2.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inhapi Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 The medium D ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 The medium D ?Used in World War II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inhapi Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 (edited) Should have said medium mark D Edited March 13, 2020 by Inhapi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_S Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 Panther? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougRichards Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 Panther?I was thinking Tiger... expensive and maybe not worth the effort. I can see the Panther as being more economic but that 75mm L70 basically made it a tank destroyer rather than a well balanced tank. For those who appreciate the Centurion, I only found out today that there is 1/35 Scale Centurion A41 (with 17pdr gun and 20mm) available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_S Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 The Tiger pretty much did its job though. It was meant to be a breakthrough tank and was pretty handy when used in a fire brigade role. IMO what makes Panther disappointing is that it was meant to be able to be used in an exploitation role but it was just too heavy and unreliable to be able to do that properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougRichards Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 The Tiger pretty much did its job though. It was meant to be a breakthrough tank and was pretty handy when used in a fire brigade role. IMO what makes Panther disappointing is that it was meant to be able to be used in an exploitation role but it was just too heavy and unreliable to be able to do that properly.And the HE round of the Panther, whilst just adequate, really meant that the 122mm of the JS2 was much more effective in the exploitation role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inhapi Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 ossilating turrets ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Oscillating turrets worked, but could not be sealed for NBC warfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020  Panther? I was thinking Tiger... expensive and maybe not worth the effort. I can see the Panther as being more economic but that 75mm L70 basically made it a tank destroyer rather than a well balanced tank. For those who appreciate the Centurion, I only found out today that there is 1/35 Scale Centurion A41 (with 17pdr gun and 20mm) available. Really? Afvclub? I've got a 1973 Israeli one in the strategic reserve that is the garden shed. One day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougRichards Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 (edited)   Panther?I was thinking Tiger... expensive and maybe not worth the effort. I can see the Panther as being more economic but that 75mm L70 basically made it a tank destroyer rather than a well balanced tank. For those who appreciate the Centurion, I only found out today that there is 1/35 Scale Centurion A41 (with 17pdr gun and 20mm) available. Really? Afvclub? I've got a 1973 Israeli one in the strategic reserve that is the garden shed. One day... Platz using the AFV Club as the basis. Girls und Panzer being the marketing ploy. https://www.hlj.com/1-35-scale-girls-und-panzer-der-film-cruiser-tank-a41-centurion-university-strengthened-team-plzgp-39 Edited March 14, 2020 by DougRichards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovngard Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Oscillating turrets worked, but could not be sealed for NBC warfare.The FL 20 oscillating turret included NBC protection :Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KV7 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Oscillating turrets worked, but could not be sealed for NBC warfare.It is not a problem now as the turret can be unmanned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 I'd nominate this as Finnish contribution for "good ideas". Even worse happened when it was tried to use as a tank... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT-42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougRichards Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 I'd nominate this as Finnish contribution for "good ideas". Even worse happened when it was tried to use as a tank... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT-42Only 18 built but Tamiya still madea model of it....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020    Panther?I was thinking Tiger... expensive and maybe not worth the effort. I can see the Panther as being more economic but that 75mm L70 basically made it a tank destroyer rather than a well balanced tank. For those who appreciate the Centurion, I only found out today that there is 1/35 Scale Centurion A41 (with 17pdr gun and 20mm) available. Really? Afvclub? I've got a 1973 Israeli one in the strategic reserve that is the garden shed. One day... Platz using the AFV Club as the basis. Girls und Panzer being the marketing ploy. https://www.hlj.com/1-35-scale-girls-und-panzer-der-film-cruiser-tank-a41-centurion-university-strengthened-team-plzgp-39 Ah that explains it. Ive got a feeling Accurate Armour did one once as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougRichards Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020     Panther?I was thinking Tiger... expensive and maybe not worth the effort. I can see the Panther as being more economic but that 75mm L70 basically made it a tank destroyer rather than a well balanced tank. For those who appreciate the Centurion, I only found out today that there is 1/35 Scale Centurion A41 (with 17pdr gun and 20mm) available. Really? Afvclub? I've got a 1973 Israeli one in the strategic reserve that is the garden shed. One day... Platz using the AFV Club as the basis. Girls und Panzer being the marketing ploy. https://www.hlj.com/1-35-scale-girls-und-panzer-der-film-cruiser-tank-a41-centurion-university-strengthened-team-plzgp-39 Ah that explains it. Ive got a feeling Accurate Armour did one once as well. I have one ordered from the land of Nippon, I will let you know how it looks when it arrives. Just the thing to put up against a Panther II ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETAC21 Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 Grate idea but... the Spanish Verdeja tank, derived from the lessons of the Spanish Civil War, it was a light tank with a 45mm gun and 16mm of armor, which was acceptable in 1938, but if you look closer, you will note that the roadwheels run on "channels" on the tracks in order to avoid tracks being thrown, which would be fine except when a rock or muds clogs the "channel"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted March 15, 2020 Author Share Posted March 15, 2020 What about the m-19and m-42 AA tanks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 They were best that could have been done at that moment, but aviation development quickly overtook them, similar to a Soviet ZSU-57-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KV7 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 They were best that could have been done at that moment, but aviation development quickly overtook them, similar to a Soviet ZSU-57-2.Was adding a radar to ZSU-57-2 batteries ever considered ? The S-60 seemed to do okay in Vietnam using SON-9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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