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Problem is Rick is that said choices of personal irresponsibility goes further. AIDS/HIV also effected those that did make responsible choices.

 

 

Neither does having the tax-payer footing the bill for said choices of personal irresponsibility.

 

You are correct Milo. Sad isn't it, what sin has done to our nation.

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Sorry, I'm not getting into an abortion debate. I posted Warren's statement to show her disposition was different so as support to the response to the broad swiping claim by DKTanker. That's all.

 

But to add since leaving it as just that seems to trigger a feeling of necessary response like you just did on the political issue, I will say that I recall one Trump rally that I watched not long ago (I do watch many) and in it was a guest speaking that was a woman in her 20s, maybe still University student or recently graduated, I don't remember, but she was Pro-life and her university was making it difficult for Pro-life students to express themselves. Something like that. I found that she had many good points.

 

 

Reference bolden part. You should. There is an old truth stating "All that evil needs to succeed is good men doing nothing.'

 

 

Feel free to start a new thread about it.

 

An extremely important "thread" will occur during this November's elections.

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A couple of things spring to mind.

 

Masks are actually most effective if they're worn by the people with the infection, so they don't spray as many droplets about through sneezing or coughing. In that case, it doesn't matter about perfect seals or eye protection. train yourself to not sneeze or cough into someone else's face, or at likely touch surfaces like tables. All of these things help reduce the risk of you infecting someone if you've got it.

 

Personal hygiene has been highlighted - if you don't know how to wash your hands properly, learn. Stop poking your face, especially rubbing your eyes, or putting your fingers in your mouth.

 

Oh, and buckle up for a full-on recession. I've been planning retirement in a couple of years, based on the expected growth of my pension schemes. I'm just about ready to throw those plans out of the window. I estimate that each day our the stock markets drop by 3% is costing me a year's extra labour if this doesn't stabilise and recover soon. I am not best pleased with pangolin-eating(*) Chinese dumbasses right now.

 

* Or whatever it was they did this time.

 

This is no different than any other correction, just a little quicker. Your plan should take into consideration natural market moves like this or it's not ready for prime time as a correction per year and a bear market every 3-5 years is perfectly normal over time. If this ends up being the mythical crash that never comes back then no retirement plan would survive unless it's canned food, ammunition and assless chaps. Sequence of returns is always a consideration and should be covered by having enough wiggle room in your plan.

 

Hi Jeff. Sure, but the plan was to move the money out of riskier investments in 2 years because at that point I would have sufficient capital to live on until the company-based pension schemes became accessible. Those company schemes automatically move out of stocks and shares into "safer" places as that date approaches.

 

The hole is in both parts, because both are stock market heavy at the moment, but the latter has 12 years to clean itself up, which is plenty of time. It's the former that's hurting me.

 

My plan has always included "oh, well, another year (or two) working" as a fallback position and I've always understood that my target date was on the optimistic side.

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Masks (regular ass masks btw) will prevent an infected person from spreading the disease for about 15 minutes of use. After that, the mask is so saturated with saliva and secretions that it will then spray the infection.

 

Fair point. One thing in the uninfected's favour is that the mask will be nasty at that point, and the wearer may consider using a fresh one.

 

Or, if they're actually being a responsible adult, getting the f*ck out of the public arena. If this gets bad, people may take serious offence at being sneezed on.

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Ever since I saw South Korea setting up drive-through testing stations, I thought that their high case count (and corresponding low fatality rate) may be due to effective mass testing. Just saw that they're also putting the movements of any confirmed case on the internet for anyone to see, which would give Western privacy legislators fits.

 

Why South Korea may have more coronavirus cases than the US


South Korea had tested 66,652 people as of Thursday afternoon.
27 February 2020, 11:09

SEOUL, South Korea -- Global health experts say the speed and scope of South Korea’s novel coronavirus diagnostic capability exhibit impressive and significant lab capabilities that no other countries, including the U.S., can match at the moment.

 

South Korea had tested a total of 66,652 people for the COVID-19 coronavirus virus as of 4 p.m. local time Thursday, whereas Japan had reported administering roughly 1,890 tests and the U.S. only 445. The huge discrepancy compared to other countries reflects how quickly South Korea’s numbers have been rising, experts say.

 

The total number of confirmed cases so far in South Korea is 1,766, up 505 from the day before. Of the 66,00 people who have been tested, more than 25,000 are still awaiting lab results.

 

More than 10,000 people a day are being tested around the clock, propelled by a sense of concern that the virus may spread outside of Daegu area, where around 80 percent of all confirmed cases have been found.

 

"This week is crucial for us in determining whether we have successfully dealt with COVID-19," South Korea Prime Minister Chung Sye-Kyun said.

 

The tests are being run at 79 designated health centers, in addition to authorized private hospitals and public health labs across the country.

 

"We have quickly selected these institutions after training and evaluation programs held on Feb. 7 and 20," official Park Hyun Kyu at Korea's Center for Disease Control told ABC News. "They do preliminary screening, then send all positively sampled results to us for final diagnosis."

 

Dr. Todd Ellerin, Director of Infectious Disease at South Shore Health in Massachusetts, says the massive number of tests is impressive.

 

[...]

 

A big reason for South Korea's success is how quickly they were able to get test kits ready, Ellerin said.

 

"One thing China did was that [after] the first case came in November, activity began in late December and by January 10th China shared the sequence with the public and they already had test kits on that day."

 

Officials say the rapid implementation was possible because the South Korean government was able to shorten the process for the newly developed test kits to be approved by its version of the Food and Drug Administration.

 

"It would normally take about a year to get a test kit approved, but FDA gave out emergency approval to acceptable applicants on a temporary basis," Park told ABC News.

 

For the testing itself, medical institutions, spread out across local communities, follow detailed instructions provided by the central health authorities and screen applicants with suspicious respiratory symptoms. The meticulous process takes from half an hour to an hour per person.

 

"It just takes a lot of time because the tester has to change suits to a new one every time," said Park.

 

"All medical teams dispose of their quarantine suits and inspection tools by using it just once, and new medical tools are used for each patient, every time," an official with Samsung Medical Center, one of the largest testing centers in Seoul, told ABC News.

 

As number of tests continues to stack up, several locations have set up "drive-thru" centers that could minimize contact between the potential patient and medical staff. This new idea shortens time spent on testing to just 10 minutes per person since the medics do not have to change quarantine suits for every patient.

 

Applicants must drive to the site in their privately owned vehicles wearing masks. Tests are conducted at a makeshift tent outside of buildings to prevent spreading indoors.

 

[...]

 

https://abcnews.go.com/International/massive-coronavirus-testing-program-south-korea-underscores-nimble/story?id=69226222

 

February 24, 2020 / 7:33 AM / 5 days ago

Mapping coronavirus: South Koreans turn to online tracking as cases surge
SEOUL (Reuters) - As the new coronavirus spreads in South Korea, private software developers have set up websites and apps to help people track cases and shun places where infected people have been in the hope of avoiding the fast-spreading virus.

The government, stung by criticism of how it handled past outbreaks, initially released very detailed information on confirmed cases, including the age, gender and daily routes infected people took before being quarantined.

 

Identities were not published but the information that was enabled web developers to build detailed maps tracking the movements of patients.

 

“We experienced a public backlash after a mass infection took place during the MERS outbreak five years ago, because we didn’t make public where those patients had gone,” a health official, who declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the matter, told Reuters.

 

A button on one of the sites, Coronamap.live, is labeled “See whether I am safe”. A click shows users if there are any known coronavirus cases in their vicinity.

 

Many South Koreans have been logging on to the sites, with some saying the thought of becoming infected and appearing on an online map is so mortifying it keeps them from going out.

 

[...]

 

But the increase in cases over recent days with confirmed infections surging from 31 to more than 763, including seven deaths, in less than a week, has made it nearly impossible to keep up.

 

“Currently adding 600+ places,” said a message on Monday on Coronamap.live, which offers an interactive map in Korean, Chinese and English.

 

‘TAKING A TOLL’

Health authorities also just can’t keep up with the new cases and in recent days have been forced to publish more general summaries and regional information on cases.

 

Still, the government regularly releases updates and discusses cases in briefings, and Hong said he uses a wide range of other open-source resources like news reports to supplement official data.

 

[...]

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-southkorea-maps/mapping-coronavirus-south-koreans-turn-to-online-tracking-as-cases-surge-idUSKCN20I0HG

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What every totalitarian ruler has always desired, a means to have inconvenient people conveniently disappear with a ready made excuse a panicking public will not question.
Personally, I refuse to participate in the panic and will pay doomsayers no mind. Rather, I'll be reminded by cooler saner heads, such as at the New England Journal of Medicine, that are opining this pandemic, while easily transmittable, has the potential morbidity rate of being nothing greater than a seasonal flu outbreak.

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Part of the fraud the Left has been perpetrating about the CV. What a difference a few weeks make.

 

Schumer%20corona.jpg​

 

Why do you spread this bullshit? The Tweet is fake. A few seconds of googling would have told you that there's automated databases tracking deleted Tweets from various public figures, and the Tweet doesn't show up in there.

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Moreover, why do we still get fucking American domestic partisan hysterics in a global pandemic thread?

 

With the political climate in the US, it's probably just the default thing to do. It's like a warm security blanket when faced with something that shouldn't normally be blamed on the other part of the aisle. Too bad you can't vote down a pandemic with a Senate majority.

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I was raised by good Mormon parents who took the church's advice about food storage ever since I was a kid. When my father died I took over all their food storage, neither sister wanted it. I probably lave 50+ 1 gallon cans of food basics; wheat, beans, rice, etc...

That's more long term not immediate use, but it is comforting to have. My food pantries and fridge are running emptier than normal, but there is still about 2 weeks of food for me between them. I'm not very concerned about water, but I'm setting away some in 1 and 2 liter bottles this weekend, I should have about 4 liters set aside and bleach added by the end of the weekend. Bug out plan has always been to get to our cabin if needed where we have water, but can't get up there this time of the year.

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Moreover, why do we still get fucking American domestic partisan hysterics in a global pandemic thread?

 

You sort of answered that yourself. Corona and US domestic politics, climate change and fires in Brazil/Aus, an earthquake in Japan and shutting down nuclear plants in Germany and whatever else can be instrumentalized for ones goals.

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Bug out plan has always been to get to our cabin if needed where we have water, but can't get up there this time of the year.

 

One question I have always wondered about cabin ownership is what owners do with them (if anything) when they are not there for extended periods. Are squatters a concern?

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Here's an interesting breakdown about the problems the US had with its testing kits.

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/united-states-badly-bungled-coronavirus-testing-things-may-soon-improve

 

 

The United States badly bungled coronavirus testing—but things may soon improve
By Jon CohenFeb. 28, 2020 , 5:45 PM
Speed is critical in the response to COVID-19. So why has the United States been so slow in its attempt to develop reliable diagnostic tests and use them widely?
The World Health Organization (WHO) has shipped testing kits to 57 countries. China had five commercial tests on the market 1 month ago and can now do up to 1.6 million tests a week; South Korea has tested 65,000 people so far. The U. S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), in contrast, has done only 459 tests since the epidemic began. The rollout of a CDC-designed test kit to state and local labs has become a fiasco because it contained a faulty reagent. Labs around the country eager to test more suspected cases—and test them faster—have been unable to do so. No commercial or state labs have the approval to use their own tests.
In what is already an infamous snafu, CDC initially refused a request to test a patient in Northern California who turned out to be the first probable COVID19 case without known links to an infected person.
The problems have led many to doubt that the official tally of 60 confirmed cases in the United States is accurate. “There have been blunders, and there could be an underlying catastrophe that we don’t know about,” says epidemiologist Michael Mina, who helps run a microbiology testing lab at Brigham and Women’s Hospital. “It’s been very complicated and confusing for everyone with almost no clarity being provided by the CDC.”
The situation may soon improve. State labs and commercial diagnostic developers hope to win approval from the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for their own tests, and FDA and CDC on Wednesday agreed on a workaround for the faulty CDC kit—which has a problem that is not essential to its proper functioning—so that it can now be used by at least some of the state labs that have it.
But there’s widespread discontent with the way the system has worked. “The U.S. government has not appropriately prioritized diagnostic tests and supported the laboratory response network to the degree they should have been supported over the years,” says Luciana Borio, who in previous jobs had lead roles in responding to emerging threats at the National Security Council and FDA.
If a new disease emerges, CDC normally “gets the ball rolling” with diagnostics because it has the expertise and the biosafety laboratories to handle dangerous novel pathogens, says Borio, who now works for In-Q-Tel, a not-for-profit venture capital firm. Typically, there are few confirmed viral samples from patients at the outset, which researchers need to validate their tests, and CDC has the capability to grow the virus for this critical quality assurance step. Once the agency has a working test, that goes out to state labs. Then, in a third phase, commercial labs take over and either produce their own tests or scale-up the CDC one. “I would have hoped to see that third phase by now,” Borio says.
In the case of SARS-CoV-2, as the virus causing COVID-19 is officially known, CDC’s sluggishness was apparent 1 month ago. On 26 January, the agency held an unusual Sunday teleconference for the media to provide an update about the rapidly growing outbreak. There were then five cases in the United States, but the CDC lab in Atlanta was still the only one in the country able to test for the virus, and it repeatedly had backlogs. Asked why more labs weren’t able to do the tests, Nancy Messonnier, who then was leading CDC’s response, said it was a quality issue. “We hold ourselves to an incredibly high standard of precision in terms of laboratory testing,” Messonnier said. “We wouldn’t want to inadvertently make a mistake in patient care.”
CDC finally started to send kits to state and local health labs on 5 February. But on 12 February, it revealed that several labs had difficulty validating the test because of a problem with one of the reagents.
The key problem with the kits is what’s known as a negative control, says Kelly Wroblewski, director of infectious diseases at the Association of Public Health Laboratories (APHL). CDC’s test uses the polymerase chain reaction (PCR) assay to find tiny amounts of the SARS-CoV-2 genome in, say, a nose swab. To make sure a test is working properly, kits also include DNA unrelated to SARS-CoV-2. The assay should not react to this negative control, but the CDC reagents did at many, but not all, state labs. The labs where the negative control failed were not allowed to use the test; they have to continue to send their samples to Atlanta.
In principle, many hospital and academic labs around the country have the capability to carry out tests themselves. The PCR reaction uses so-called primers, short stretches of DNA, to find viral sequences. The CDC website posts the primers used in its test, and WHO publicly catalogs other primers and protocols, too. Well-equipped state or local labs can use these—or come up with their own—to produce what are known as a “laboratory-developed tests” for in-house use.
But at the moment, they’re not allowed to do that without FDA approval. When the United States declared the outbreak a public health emergency on 31 January, a bureaucratic process kicked in that requires FDA’s “emergency use approval” for any tests. “The declaration of a public health emergency did exactly what it shouldn’t have. It limited the diagnostic capacity of this country,” Mina says. “It’s insane.”
On 24 February, APHL asked FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn for “enforcement discretion” to sidestep the emergency process and allow APHL members labs to use their own tests. On 26 February, Hahn replied that the CDC test could be modified to use just the primers that specifically detect SARS-CoV-2, essentially ignoring the faulty portion of the kits. FDA, in other words, would look the other way to make more widespread testing possible.
CDC has notified labs of FDA’s decision in a letter, but the agency must still file an emergency use authorization with FDA for the protocol change. Once it does, it won’t take long, Hahn promised in his letter to APHL: “FDA has been able to authorize tests for public health emergencies within as little as 1 day upon receipt of the complete validation.”
In New York, the State Department of Health has designed its own test based on the CDC protocol and plans to seek emergency use authorization.
CDC provided an update about the situation in an email but did not respond to Science’s request for an interview with a scientist to discuss the details of the problem. Mina stresses he has great respect for CDC’s competence overall, but says, “There’s no good explanation for what’s going on here.”
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Bug out plan has always been to get to our cabin if needed where we have water, but can't get up there this time of the year.

 

One question I have always wondered about cabin ownership is what owners do with them (if anything) when they are not there for extended periods. Are squatters a concern?

 

Can be. If you have decent soil and water, the potheads might use your property for a grow op. Plus there's plain old teenage vandalism etc.

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Ours is roughly 10 km through 1-2 m of snow past a locked gate, not easy to get too. There was a problem with teenage snowmobilers breaking into a couple nearby cabins, but that was 20 years ago. My dad a I found stuff on the trail, the sheriff had little difficulty finding the culprits. From May to October there is someone there (usually me) every weekend, and 3 gates to pass to get there. We do leave it unlocked and stocked with some food in the winter, in case anyone is stranded up there.

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I was raised by good Mormon parents who took the church's advice about food storage ever since I was a kid. When my father died I took over all their food storage, neither sister wanted it. I probably lave 50+ 1 gallon cans of food basics; wheat, beans, rice, etc...

That's more long term not immediate use, but it is comforting to have. My food pantries and fridge are running emptier than normal, but there is still about 2 weeks of food for me between them. I'm not very concerned about water, but I'm setting away some in 1 and 2 liter bottles this weekend, I should have about 4 liters set aside and bleach added by the end of the weekend. Bug out plan has always been to get to our cabin if needed where we have water, but can't get up there this time of the year.

I have some 20 cans of soup and 10 cans of tuna fish. Plus about 30 gallon jugs of water. I am in the greater LA area and its as much for survival after an earthquake as anything else.

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Having listened to the nightmare a family friend went through in dealing with a subletter who would not leave a vacation house, not being easy to get to sounds like the best security.

 

Teens will be teens, particularly those from households able to provide snowmobiles for them to enjoy in the winter. It is the homeless adults I see every day who, given knowledge of an unlocked cabin stocked with food within their mobility range would soon be living and receiving mail there, I worry about.

 

And the bears.

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I don't worry about bears, there are coyotes, cougars and I saw a wolf up there twice last summer. Utah DWR will deny wolves are there but residents of N Utah know they are lying. After watching Travel channel I'm more concerned about Bigfoot :), that's why I have a big bore revolver with me when I'm there.

 

(I was watching one of their Bigfoot specials and they were talking/exploring a hotspot in N Utah, which happened to be about 2 miles from our front door)

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Moreover, why do we still get fucking American domestic partisan hysterics in a global pandemic thread?

Because politics interferes with it the same way it does with other countries. You yourself noted the lack of privacy with regards to positive testing, that itself is a political angle. CDC and Department of Labor rules indicate that if a US employer has a worker who tests positive, they're not allowed to release the name of the infected co-worker due to privacy concerns. Those privacy concerns are a form of political interference.

Edited by rmgill
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Moreover, why do we still get fucking American domestic partisan hysterics in a global pandemic thread?

 

Because politics interferes with it the same way it does with other countries. You yourself noted the lack of privacy with regards to positive testing, that itself is a political angle. CDC and Department of Labor rules indicate that if a US employer has a worker who tests positive, they're not allowed to release the name of the infected co-worker due to privacy concerns. Those privacy concerns are a form of political interference.

Are you posting out of loyalty to Jeff or do you really not see a difference between general information about ROK testing on side and that fake Schumer tweet on the other?

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I was raised by good Mormon parents who took the church's advice about food storage ever since I was a kid. When my father died I took over all their food storage, neither sister wanted it. I probably lave 50+ 1 gallon cans of food basics; wheat, beans, rice, etc...

That's more long term not immediate use, but it is comforting to have. My food pantries and fridge are running emptier than normal, but there is still about 2 weeks of food for me between them. I'm not very concerned about water, but I'm setting away some in 1 and 2 liter bottles this weekend, I should have about 4 liters set aside and bleach added by the end of the weekend. Bug out plan has always been to get to our cabin if needed where we have water, but can't get up there this time of the year.

Suggested amount of potted water is seven litres per adult per day.

 

If worse comes to worse I could drain water from our hot water system (after turning power off etc.) Even with sediment I should get 200 litres of usable water. The worse that had happened to us so far is an arborist, whilst cutting down a tree stood on the water meter causing it to leak so it had to be turned off. That left our apartment block of 10 units facing a few days without running water, but was fixed within 12 hours. We could have always prevailed on neighbours for water if needed. I keep a slab of water in the trunk / boot of our car, enough food for about a month with reserves to help neighbours as well.

 

If the power went out I have enough battery powered and solar rechargeable lights, barbecue fuel and the like, camping stoves and gas so that we would be okay, I am sure the neighbours and I would be able to prepare a grand feast or three to use up all the thawing stuff in our freezers and it would be party time for a while: EXCEPT: my neighbour would run out of champagne in about three days (I have it delivered for her) and my wife out of wine in four days then, with no Bold and Beautiful or Frasier on the not working TV, all hell would break loose.

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