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5 hours ago, nitflegal said:

The thing is, this is exactly how seasonal influenza looks.  The colder and more congested the populace, the higher the infection rates as people are forced inside with sh*t ventilation to share bugs.  Put them in a dispersed area and the case load goes down dramatically.  What it suggests (but certainly doesn't prove) is that vaccination status has fairly minor effects on transmission.  If you combine it with death rates per hospitalizations it looks like the vaccines have significantly lowered fatalities before the birth of our newest variant.

Which is why home confinement and no-one allowed out of their homes during the peaks was not so well thought out. EVERYONE in the home was exposed. 

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21 hours ago, Ssnake said:

Again, can't speak too much about other countries, but I think that all things considered, Germany's policies were successful.

How would one gauge that? Would Germany's Deaths per 1Million people be substantially lower? Would their covid infection rate over time be more flat? What's the metric to measure success? 

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1 hour ago, DB said:

The guidance for AC is to maximise the mixing of external air, minimising the recirculation rate, so that there is less chance for a buildup of airborne droplets.

Needless to say, this causes higher costs operating the AC unit as the fresher air has to be conditioned, whereas recirculated air is just, well, recirculated. Then separate the responsibility of having a healthy worforce from the responsibility to manage the AC costs and you get some conflict.

An acquaintance of mine was told that the management had ordered the AC shut off in his office so that if one office gets it, the others won't, which isn't really how AC is supposed to work at all.

i think HEPA filters, UV sanitizers in the air column and good cleaning of the entire system (as a general precaution) is a good idea. 

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3 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

Take with a large grain of salt, but interesting;

This asserts that clotting conditions begin much earlier than other stuff I've read. If true, or even partly true, then maybe we all should have a bottle of aspirin handy.

 

 

It would be interesting to see what correlation there is between Covid severity and those taking blood thinners or even just on an aspirin regime.  One might think the CDC would have been all over this from the beginning.  

I've been on a daily 82 mg dose of aspirin for the last five years, I can assure you that it is a pretty good blood thinner.  The bruising on my hands, arms, and legs attest to it.  Interestingly, I was talking to my cardiologist after my heart attack and I mentioned that perhaps my having taken aspirin at the onset of symptoms helped mitigate the event.  He said that taking aspirin at the onset of an attack won't hurt, it just won't help in the least.  Says he, you need a daily dose for about a week before your blood chemistry is altered enough to suppress clotting.

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3 minutes ago, DKTanker said:

It would be interesting to see what correlation there is between Covid severity and those taking blood thinners or even just on an aspirin regime.  One might think the CDC would have been all over this from the beginning.  

I've been on a daily 82 mg dose of aspirin for the last five years, I can assure you that it is a pretty good blood thinner.  The bruising on my hands, arms, and legs attest to it.  Interestingly, I was talking to my cardiologist after my heart attack and I mentioned that perhaps my having taken aspirin at the onset of symptoms helped mitigate the event.  He said that taking aspirin at the onset of an attack won't hurt, it just won't help in the least.  Says he, you need a daily dose for about a week before your blood chemistry is altered enough to suppress clotting.

"Full-dose blood thinners reduce the need for organ support in moderately ill COVID-19 patients, but not in critically ill patients"

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/full-dose-blood-thinners-reduce-need-organ-support-moderately-ill-covid-19-patients-not-critically-ill-patients#:~:text=A large clinical trial conducted,chances of leaving the hospital.

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33 minutes ago, RETAC21 said:

I wasn't talking about treatment after contracting covid, but as a preventative for serious disease prior to contracting covid.  In other words, did being on blood thinners help prevent severe symptoms of covid?  As it turns out, with the new omicron variant, that is more of an historic question rather than something to be addressed going forward.

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1 hour ago, DKTanker said:

I wasn't talking about treatment after contracting covid, but as a preventative for serious disease prior to contracting covid.  In other words, did being on blood thinners help prevent severe symptoms of covid? 

Doesn't make sense to me to take aspirin (or other blood thinners) before infection. However, if I thought I had a COVID infection, as soon as I had cold/flu symptoms, I will probably start in the aspirin to get ahead of any clotting.

As it turns out, with the new omicron variant, that is more of an historic question rather than something to be addressed going forward.

Only if subsequent variants are, like Omnicron, less aggressive.

As for whether folks on blood thinners having fewer critical outcomes, ISTR the emergence of hydroxychloroquine came from docs who noticed that their patients with lupus and taking HQ daily weren't dropping like flies.

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Italian doctor does not follow indicated protocols, heals 3,000 people, so he faces a disciplinary procedure.

Quote

When the Order of Doctors of Salerno sent for me I thought they wanted to give me an award, a medal for my work during the pandemic. And instead I will have to submit to a disciplinary judgment, I risk even suspension! But do you realize? embittered and offended Gerardo Torre, general practitioner in Pagani, whom some colleagues call Doctor No House because he is always around. On January 28th at 8 pm he will have to present himself to the disciplinary council of the Order, in Salerno, to defend himself from the accusation of not having respected the protocols of the Ministry of Health on the treatments to be administered to Covid patients, especially the asymptomatic. 

(...)

https://www.italy24news.com/local/342337.html

Should have behaved like some Spanish paediatrician with a master on infectious diseases. That will teach him that bureaucratic compliance is more important than care for the people.

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1 hour ago, Ivanhoe said:

As for whether folks on blood thinners having fewer critical outcomes, ISTR the emergence of hydroxychloroquine came from docs who noticed that their patients with lupus and taking HQ daily weren't dropping like flies.

Friend of mine had COVID. She's ex Navy and is taking immunosuppressants for Lupus as I recall. She was in EARLY on at the VA for a COVID infection and had hardly ANY of the OMG type symptoms, just a positive test and early hospitalization in case. Eventually they scratched their heads and discharged her. 

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1 hour ago, Harold Jones said:

Ivermectin or not, that's not right. But the details seem to be a bit sketchy. Anti-biotics for a virus...ok...what's that? 

 

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Antibiotics are for potential secondary infections that start due the immune system being weakened by covid.

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6 hours ago, rmgill said:

How would one gauge that?

Since you routinely question any medical statistic that doesn't support your preconceived opinion, I think that answering you will just waste my time. Suffice to say, I trust the opinion of virologists like Dr. Drosten more than that of an IT professional in a datacenter when it comes to matters like this. And yes, I think that Covid deaths per million would be a suitable metric, but then again that's going to lead immediately into one of those inane debates about "Death By" vs "Death With". Maybe the incentives for clinics in the US to inflate their reporting are highly dysfunctional, over here they're not. But who cares, you'd rather believe in serial killers and suicide cults as the explanation for excess mortality in Europe.

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37 minutes ago, bojan said:

Antibiotics are for potential secondary infections that start due the immune system being weakened by covid.

Also some antibiotics have an anti-inflammatory effect.

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2 hours ago, Ssnake said:

Since you routinely question any medical statistic that doesn't support your preconceived opinion, I think that answering you will just waste my time. Suffice to say, I trust the opinion of virologists like Dr. Drosten more than that of an IT professional in a datacenter when it comes to matters like this.

You were giving YOUR opinion. Not Doctor Drosten. 

2 hours ago, Ssnake said:

And yes, I think that Covid deaths per million would be a suitable metric, but then again that's going to lead immediately into one of those inane debates about "Death By" vs "Death With".

Ok. So if you compare Germany with other countreis based on differences in lockdown does it work out or not? 

If you're going to assert that process X worked better than process Y, you should bloody well be prepared to show that it worked. 

2 hours ago, Ssnake said:

Maybe the incentives for clinics in the US to inflate their reporting are highly dysfunctional, over here they're not. But who cares, you'd rather believe in serial killers and suicide cults as the explanation for excess mortality in Europe.

Not a good answer, sorry. 

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9 hours ago, sunday said:

Italian doctor does not follow indicated protocols, heals 3,000 people, so he faces a disciplinary procedure.

https://www.italy24news.com/local/342337.html

Should have behaved like some Spanish paediatrician with a master on infectious diseases. That will teach him that bureaucratic compliance is more important than care for the people.

Rather than talk out of your third point of contact, which is becoming common as of late, you should remember that doctors are not allowed to experiment with their patients, "expert".

If you even took the trouble to read the article you would have noted this: "ot having respected the protocols of the Ministry of Health on the treatments to be administered to Covid patients, especially the asymptomatic."

Which means he saved not one life, as none were severe cases and therefore no one was at risk.

Besides, I thought this would disqualify him in your "expert" eyes: "Torre is keen to clarify that he is absolutely not a no-vax doctor"?

 

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It's beginning to look like the omicron surge is past.

I looked at the numbers from here: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

From a fairly steady state case rate (positive test results, mainly LFT followed up by PCR) of between 35,000 and 40,000 cases per day from August through to the end of November, the surge shown starts on about 4 December and peaks with a 7 day average of 192,000 cases per day. This now appears to have dropped back down to 103,000 per day.

Hospitalisation rate increases look to have lagged the case rate increase by approximately 12 days, with mean rate from August to 16 December being about 750-1000 per day and ramping up to a 7 day average of about 2200 per day. there is no sign of the hospitalisation rate dropping off yet, but if the lag correlates with the other data it should become clear in the next week.

The death rate data shows a couple of peaks before omicron but after July, and more variability ranging between 85 and 176 deaths per day before a far less pronounced climb that looks to start somewhere around Christmas Day, with the current 7 day average being about 230. I don't believe that there are signs of the death rate dropping yet, but the same lag versus positive test results also probably applies.

From this we can see that reported cases increased hugely - by about a factor of 6 - although there was a 50% increase in reported test results in the period, including negative results of course. (there's another chart for this on the cited stats page).

The hospitalisation rate approximately doubled, and the death rate increased by about the same, but with greater uncertainty due to variability of the "steady state" data from August to November.

I think pretty much everyone is calling this surge over now, and it certainly looks like it's less lethal, although these data say nothing about the reasons for that.

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9 minutes ago, DB said:

It's beginning to look like the omicron surge is past.

I looked at the numbers from here: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

From a fairly steady state case rate (positive test results, mainly LFT followed up by PCR) of between 35,000 and 40,000 cases per day from August through to the end of November, the surge shown starts on about 4 December and peaks with a 7 day average of 192,000 cases per day. This now appears to have dropped back down to 103,000 per day.

Hospitalisation rate increases look to have lagged the case rate increase by approximately 12 days, with mean rate from August to 16 December being about 750-1000 per day and ramping up to a 7 day average of about 2200 per day. there is no sign of the hospitalisation rate dropping off yet, but if the lag correlates with the other data it should become clear in the next week.

The death rate data shows a couple of peaks before omicron but after July, and more variability ranging between 85 and 176 deaths per day before a far less pronounced climb that looks to start somewhere around Christmas Day, with the current 7 day average being about 230. I don't believe that there are signs of the death rate dropping yet, but the same lag versus positive test results also probably applies.

From this we can see that reported cases increased hugely - by about a factor of 6 - although there was a 50% increase in reported test results in the period, including negative results of course. (there's another chart for this on the cited stats page).

The hospitalisation rate approximately doubled, and the death rate increased by about the same, but with greater uncertainty due to variability of the "steady state" data from August to November.

I think pretty much everyone is calling this surge over now, and it certainly looks like it's less lethal, although these data say nothing about the reasons for that.

It looks the same in my neck of the woods, page 9 new cases, page 10 hospitalisations (blue) ICU (red) which is kind of curious because there wasn't much a Delta impact previously (see november map in the second link, page 11 on both) but it also seems that Omicron onset and recuperation is faster than on previous variants (peak was expected to occur next week)

https://www.comunidad.madrid/sites/default/files/doc/sanidad/220117_cam_covid19.pdf

https://www.comunidad.madrid/sites/default/files/aud/sanidad/211130_cam_covid19.pdf

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5 hours ago, RETAC21 said:

Rather than talk out of your third point of contact, which is becoming common as of late, you should remember that doctors are not allowed to experiment with their patients, "expert".

Doctors experiment all the time with treatments. Its not experimentation In the proper sense, but it is an OODA loop. You see this all the time with a variety of diseases, especially novel disease. 
 

This is why I am going with an uncle tomorrow for his cardiologist to see if the dosage of two different meds are having the desired effect. 
 

 

5 hours ago, RETAC21 said:

If you even took the trouble to read the article you would have noted this: "ot having respected the protocols of the Ministry of Health on the treatments to be administered to Covid patients, especially the asymptomatic."

Which means he saved not one life, as none were severe cases and therefore no one was at risk.

Nonsense. Treating covid before it becomes severe is how you prevent the disease becoming severe. 
 

Its much the same as giving the entire world an untested, experimental vaccine, except its with antivirals that are already accepted for human use. 
 

The other difference is that people having a choice in differing treatment protocols for a given disease vs being forced to have a vaccine under pain of job loss or more so just allowed to die as some seem to feel fits into ethics is crazy. 

5 hours ago, RETAC21 said:

Besides, I thought this would disqualify him in your "expert" eyes: "Torre is keen to clarify that he is absolutely not a no-vax doctor"?

 

How many times do you have to make this accusation. Keep up and we will have to ask how much you're getting paid to flak for the vaccine companies. 
 

Vaccines have a place in this. They just aren't the only tool in the tool box. Not everything is a nail to be hammered. 

Edited by rmgill
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8 hours ago, Stefan Fredriksson said:

@Ssnake

Is that a vein throbbing in your forehead, or are you just happy to see me?

Not all of us are convinced by the guerrilla  advertising campaigners and jack booted thuggery apologists. 
 

There. Fine. You guys want to get dirty, I can be dirty back and hurl the insults against your base motivations. How's that shoe fit? You like that? Is that what you wanted? 

Edited by rmgill
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