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4 hours ago, JWB said:

How far apart are the tables?

Don’t know but all 3 of them sat together, not at separate tables.

I also need help with understanding how my neighboring state of New Jersey justified a mandate that restaurants had to close at 10 PM to comply with COVID restrictions.

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This is an interesting example of question and answer posts.

Question:

Quote

 Anonymous said...

I read a blog site named"Assistant Village Idiot". He sites figures showing why VAERs is wrong on the vaccine causing harm, and that the unvaccinated transmit the COVID virus far more than the vaccinated. You both agree the virus is occasionally deadly, sometimes even for those without comorbidities.

How can two smart people agree in the risk, but disagree so strongly on the vaccine? I would appreciate any comments you may have. I am not interested in a blog/comment war, just curious as to the vastly different analysis of similar information.

Answer:

Quote

@Anon 6:15P

Okay, I'll play.
1) Sumdood has "figures" purporting to show that 32,000 people voluntarily reporting deaths and permanent disabilities on the VAERS database just made it up. Riiiiiiiiiiight.

Peruse the first slide from this post
https://raconteurreport.blogspot.com/2021/09/just-coincidence-im-sure.html
six whole days ago.

I fart in the general direction of any such "figures". They're hokum and codswallop.

2) "the unvaccinated transmit the virus far more than the vaccinated"
a) Considering that the vaccinated make up some 60% of the population in the US, it's highly unlikely that's the case.
b) In Israel, where vaccination rates are over 80% for all age groups, it's flatly recockulous. And yet they have the highest number of new cases and deaths per capita in the civilized world at the moment.

3) You'll have to ask the Assistant Village Idiot. I'm looking at the disease growing because the not-a-Vaxx isn't a vaccine:
I doesn't prevent infection, and it doesn't prevent transmission, and the claim that it moderates severity of symptoms is becoming an obvious bald-faced lie as well.
Diseases don't mutate when they don't have to. The unvaccinated were getting sick, and even dying occasionally, just fine with the Original Recipe COVID. But vaccinating huge swaths with a cocktail that doesn't provide any immunity is how and why the virus mutated, inside the vaccinated.
Who then, ipso facto, passed the new variant(s) on to others, thinking they were COVID-free, when in fact they were COVID superspreaders, exactly like Typhoid Mary. We now have a nation of 190M or so Typhoid Marys (minus the 16K or more - possibly as many as 150K - dead) spreading COVID Original Recipe and New Extra Spicy like Johnny Appleseed with a backpack leafblower and a sack of virus.

If we had 190M people who'd gotten the disease instead, they'd have 13X stronger immunity, with no side effects (unlike the mRNA frankencocktail), except that we'd probably also have another 2.4M or so dead, instead of nearly 700+K and counting.

Make an actual traditional vaccine, which confers actual immunity from re-infection or hosting, using non-aborted-baby-tissue testing, and without DNA-altering therapy, and test it as thoroughly as we did every other vaccine in history before last year to prove it's actually safe and effective (the current shit cocktail is neither) and I'll be at the front of the line to get that shot.

The fastest way to get there is to remove all liability protections from Pfizer, Moderna, J&J, et al, and everyone giving them or mandating them, in perpetuity.

Their Quackcines will disappear from shelves so fast it'll leave skidmarks.

Until that's done, this will be politicized to control the population, both in absolute terms, by killing them off, and in their day-to-day lives.

People have had enough of the bullshit, and we're about 10 days from becoming Australia, except with 600M more guns and a few trillion rounds of loose ammunition.
We won't butt heads with cops, we'll start laying them out, and leaving pennies on their eyelids, when this pops. The police can barely keep a handle on crime now.
Wait until the government makes 30% of the population criminals overnight, and they have nothing left to lose. Civilization will be gone in about two magazines apiece.

The government in this country that's pushing that outcome will disappear in a fog of red mist made of their own blood, and about as fast as fog burns off on a sunny morning.

That's a feature at this point, and not a bug.

 

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4 hours ago, LT Ducky said:

Don’t know but all 3 of them sat together, not at separate tables.

I also need help with understanding how my neighboring state of New Jersey justified a mandate that restaurants had to close at 10 PM to comply with COVID restrictions.

 

Edited by rmgill
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5 hours ago, sunday said:

1) Sumdood has "figures" purporting to show that 32,000 people voluntarily reporting deaths and permanent disabilities on the VAERS database just made it up. Riiiiiiiiiiight.

This is the chart that went along with that part:

tQRujgF.jpeg

 

I don't know if it is true but I have great doubts. 

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8 hours ago, JWB said:

This is the chart that went along with that part:

tQRujgF.jpeg

 

I don't know if it is true but I have great doubts. 

Fact Check summary:

The numbers in the chart can be extracted from VAERS, but there are caveats.

I thought I'd revisit the VAERS Reporting System to see if I could check some of the numbers again. Previously I had been unable to match the numbers shown in the report linked to by Sunday, and this time I was unable to match the numbers from the chart above also, at first.

However, I spent a bit more time experimenting and can match those numbers now. If one selects "All" instead of "The United States / Territories /Unknown" for the region filter one includes all "Foreign" entries in the VAERS database as well as US ones.

If one is looking at *rates* inside the US, which is a rational way to look at the risk, then one should be looking at the number of adverse events compared to the number of administered vaccines. If one assumes that the US tends to report consistently to VAERS (a few thoughts on this at the end), then one should look at US VAERS reports against the US vaccination numbers. It seems unlikely that foreign reports to a US system would be as consistent.

The data selection restricted to the US etc. region, shows 6,887 deaths (for all vaccines, not just COVID ones) in 2021 compared to less than 200 for all vaccines for previous years.

This is in association with an increase in VAERS reports from 52,664 to 613,299 and noting that 2021 is not yet a full year.

Selecting for all COVID vaccines alone in the same regions yields 6675 deaths and 601,887 event reports in total, so it's clear that the massive increase in numbers is correlated with the COVID vaccination campaign and it would be extremely unlikely to be due to any other cause.

Year / Event / Vaccine (report code) / Event Count / Percentage of all event reports

2021 Death COVID19 (COVID19 (JANSSEN)) (1203) 681 0.12%
2021 Death COVID19 (COVID19 (MODERNA)) (1201) 3,282 0.59%
2021 Death COVID19 (COVID19 (PFIZER-BIONTECH)) (1200) 3,549 0.63%
2021 Death COVID19 (COVID19 (UNKNOWN)) (1202) 30 0.01%

You can also show other Event outcomes like the next most severe category:

2021 Life Threatening COVID19 (COVID19 (JANSSEN)) (1203) 1,030 0.18%
2021 Life Threatening COVID19 (COVID19 (MODERNA)) (1201) 3,619 0.65%
2021 Life Threatening COVID19 (COVID19 (PFIZER-BIONTECH)) (1200) 4,475 0.80%
2021 Life Threatening COVID19 (COVID19 (UNKNOWN)) (1202) 44 0.01%

I believe that it's possible for multiple event categories to overlap, so for example "Life Threatening" events may also be reported as "Permanently Disabling", but I'm not sure about this.

2021 Permanent Disability COVID19 (COVID19 (JANSSEN)) (1203) 805 0.14%
2021 Permanent Disability COVID19 (COVID19 (MODERNA)) (1201) 3,414 0.61%
2021 Permanent Disability COVID19 (COVID19 (PFIZER-BIONTECH)) (1200) 4,434 0.79%
2021 Permanent Disability COVID19 (COVID19 (UNKNOWN)) (1202) 31 0.01%

The VAERS Reporting system is awesome, but it doesn't on its own determine causation - individual investigations would be needed to ensure that an adverse event was indeed associated with the vaccine with which it has been associated, and there will be heightened sensitivity to potential adverse reactions due to the scale and public discussion about the vaccines, but the numbers are as shown.

I'd be interested to know how many COVID vaccines have been administered in the US compared to all others combined in the reporting period.

On the inclusion of "Foreign" reports in VAERS, "Foreign" reports show the following for 2021 (Selecting for COVID only):

2021 Death 8,164 5.75%
Life Threatening 6,556 4.61%
Permanent Disability 11,331 7.97%
Congenital Anomaly / Birth Defect * 132 0.09%
Hospitalized 29,239 20.58%
Existing Hospitalization Prolonged 519 0.37%
Emergency Room * 10,240 7.21%
Office Visit * 6,944 4.89%
None of the above 84,129 59.20%

"The United States / Territories / Unknown" shows the following:

2021 Death 6,675 1.19%
Life Threatening 8,356 1.49%
Permanent Disability 7,845 1.40%
Congenital Anomaly / Birth Defect * 297 0.05%
Hospitalized 30,989 5.54%
Existing Hospitalization Prolonged 280 0.05%
Emergency Room / Office Visit ** 33 0.01%
Emergency Room * 67,719 12.10%
Office Visit * 101,953 18.22%
None of the above 377,740 67.52%

In other words, Foreign reports have a higher fraction of more severe outcomes, which suggests to me that they are "pre-filtered" and more minor adverse reactions may not be reported.

Therefore, if the "Foreign" reports are included in the US Reports, then they will inflate the percentages of Event reports that are more severe. Worse, if they are included  in the figures that are used to calculate US rates of adverse reactions then it is likely that they will be compared with the number of US vaccinations, rather than with the world-wide rate of vaccinations. Even worse than that, the likelihood that the Foreign reporting rate would match the US reporting rate is low, so rendering Foreign reports essentially meaningless without further information that cannot be gleaned from the database.

Anyway, all that is why I restricted my further searches to the US, so that rates could be calculated based on the known number of US vaccinations conducted and assuming that VAERS is being used consistently within that scope.

One further note: the percentages shown when added together significantly exceed 100%, confirming that multiple Events can be reported for a single case.

If you want to know what hte asterisks mean, you can check out VAERS yourself, this post is already too long.

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Nice work, DB!

There are anecdotes, I dare not call that evidence, about under-reporting to VAERS with a factor of 10-20, but even not factoring that, and considering that filing false reports to VAERS is a criminal offense*, I think one could establish there is something funny with the current crop of kung flu vaccines.

*See https://skirsch.com/covid/Killed.pdf, pg.21.

Edited by sunday
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21 hours ago, LT Ducky said:

Don’t know but all 3 of them sat together, not at separate tables.

I also need help with understanding how my neighboring state of New Jersey justified a mandate that restaurants had to close at 10 PM to comply with COVID restrictions.

Most of the reasoning behind early restaurant closures is that drunk people will take off their masks and yell at each other a lot more etc. Personally I am extremely pro vaccine (and vaccine mandates) and think mask mandates were a not especially effective, better than nothing stopgap, but bureaucracy is slow to react. 

My favorite stupid example was how Cali allowed bars to stay open for like the second half of last year, but only if they served food or you brought food from outside. So everybody just carried a cup-o-noodles around with them for a few months. Every bar had a doorman who was like “yo man, you got your noodles, right?”

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On 9/10/2021 at 3:57 PM, rmgill said:

BECOME!!?? It has always been. How obtuse.

With the deliberate obfuscation of treatments and the delay to get a vaccine, it was always a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

Making it just about the unvaccinated is bloody stupid though.  It was and is also a disease of the unhealthy and un-hale, which all diseases are. That is ultimately the issue. Children who get it and are unvaccinated are generally unconcerned. So too anyone under a certain age and even those over who don ‘t have the requisite  co-morbidities.  

Plenty of people had Covid, didn’t die and had mild symptoms. I probably had it and have been unconcerned. Natural immunity is also better immunity than the vaccine based immunity. 

This might be one of the stupidest posts on TN in a long time... and that's saying something considering the level of discourse the FFZ has devolved into.

We've lost more Americans in the last two days than we lost service members over 20 years in Afghanistan.  Those filling up ICUs and those dying are overwhelmingly unvaccinated (figures range from 95-99%).  These people have chosen to ignore a free and easily accessible vaccine and have paid the price... along with the health care system that once again is being stressed in many parts of the country and frankly doesn't need to be had these folks simply gotten the vaccine (this stress and these costs will largely fall back on taxpayers, too).  Hence the pandemic that still is, but doesn't need to be, is one of the unvaccinated. 

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On 9/10/2021 at 2:59 PM, DKTanker said:

Did you even listen to the guy for whom you cast your vote?  He said that he's mandating the vaccines so as to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated.

Is Sloe Joe implying that the vaccine actually has little efficacy?  That was his implication; it isn't true.  So why did he say it?

(First things first, as always I've never stated I voted for Biden [I didn't vote for any POTUS candidate this last election] but keep inserting what you want to see in lieu of what's actually said... helps you fight your strawmen.)

Did you bother to listen to or read what was said?  Biden's comment that you and others are gravitating towards made little sense considering what else he said about how effective the vaccine is.  Let me quote some of it.

Quote

I want to emphasize that the vaccines provide very strong protection from severe illness from COVID-19.  I know there’s a lot of confusion and misinformation.  But the world’s leading scientists confirm that if you are fully vaccinated, your risk of severe illness from COVID-19 is very low. 

In fact, based on available data from the summer, only one of out of every 160,000 fully vaccinated Americans was hospitalized for COVID per day.

...

But as the science makes clear, if you’re fully vaccinated, you’re highly protected from severe illness, even if you get COVID-19.  

In fact, recent data indicates there is only one confirmed positive case per 5,000 fully vaccinated Americans per day.

You all like to focus on the mental capacity of the POTUS.  Maybe that one line was a slip... maybe something else happened like a last second change by a speechwriter.  There's a myriad of reasons that could explain it... and if he had an R behind his name instead of a D you all would be trying to come up with those reasons like you did for Trump so many times.

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On 9/10/2021 at 3:26 PM, Ssnake said:

Coke Stevenson hammered cattle fence poles into solid limestone well into his mid 70s. Okay, he was somewhat of a unique character but at the end of the day as long as you stay healthy and exercise, you'll hold up well until old age. And if you hold up well, you're likely to stay healthy. So it's definitely a reinforcing cycle if you do invest the exercise ... and it'll accelerate the other way, if you don't.

Whether I'm going to live by my own words, I don't know. At least I managed to convince two friends to go swimming with me, so it's twice weekly three kilometers, and I have no car, so it's walking and cycling. That must do, for now.

The good news is it doesn't take much.  I like to tell folks when I first got down to 10% body fat (and my bloodwork at the time was all amazing as well) I did it without a gym membership.  I did simple body weight exercises 3x/week and walked 20m 6x/week.  The key wasn't the exercise, it was that I finally changed my diet.  That's 90% of the work right there... and that's why America is so fat and lazy because the overwhelming majority of Americans won't give up their junk food.  Not talking Skittles and Snickers... the food they eat and consider a meal.  The majority is junk food, plain and simple.  Americans would rather eat comfort food than be comfortable in their own bodies.

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19 hours ago, JWB said:

This is the chart that went along with that part:

tQRujgF.jpeg

 

I don't know if it is true but I have great doubts. 

The below vid features some folks who aren't nutjobs (some of you may recognize Rhonda Patrick from all her appearances on the JR podcast).  In particular they address this graph and the concerns raised by some regarding VAERS from the 35-1:01 mark.  The vid also touches on questions about pregnancy and Ivermectin to name a few.

 

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On 9/23/2021 at 8:50 AM, BansheeOne said:

I know, I should listen to the people on Telegram going "no sympathy, something had to give eventually, well done". 

As usual, I'm less incensed about various narratives being pushed in callous capitalization of an event than the hypocrisy and double standards of the pushers complaining about each other. 

 

Some actual news about the perp. In the private media.

https://www.rtl.de/cms/tankstellen-killer-von-idar-oberstein-sein-vater-versuchte-seine-mutter-zu-erschiessen-4835601.html

 

Your farther committing suicide after trying to kill you mother? I can see how that could throw you off the rails. State News apparently can't. At first glance they don't let the disaster go to waste and continue to demonize any opposition. 

 

Edited by Markus Becker
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42 minutes ago, Skywalkre said:

This might be one of the stupidest posts on TN in a long time... and that's saying something considering the level of discourse the FFZ has devolved into.

We've lost more Americans in the last two days than we lost service members over 20 years in Afghanistan.  Those filling up ICUs and those dying are overwhelmingly unvaccinated (figures range from 95-99%).  These people have chosen to ignore a free and easily accessible vaccine and have paid the price... along with the health care system that once again is being stressed in many parts of the country and frankly doesn't need to be had these folks simply gotten the vaccine (this stress and these costs will largely fall back on taxpayers, too).  Hence the pandemic that still is, but doesn't need to be, is one of the unvaccinated. 

You’re responding to a guy who won’t get vaccinated because he thinks he maybe already got Covid. 

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27 minutes ago, Skywalkre said:

You all like to focus on the mental capacity of the POTUS.  Maybe that one line was a slip... maybe something else happened like a last second change by a speechwriter.  There's a myriad of reasons that could explain it... and if he had an R behind his name instead of a D you all would be trying to come up with those reasons like you did for Trump so many times.

It wasn't a slip as you well know.  Biden, his long lost veep, the Ginger Snap Spox, and the the entire propaganda arm of the Democratic Socialist Party has been regurgitating that same crap, that vaccine mandates are necessary to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated.
Maybe instead of defending the indefensible you might ring up your "enlightened" friends and suggest that Biden and friends apologize to the nation for their anti-vax campaign of 2020, and further publicly state that they were wrong to denigrate the initiative of then President Trump with regards to funding and fast tracking the vaccines.
I think that the Biden/Harris anti-vax campaign did two things, reinforce the notion among minorities that government should never be trusted with medical experiments and two, created a passive-aggressive mood among many on the right with regards to the "Biden" vaccines.  Frankly, though, I don't think it is possible to un-ring that bell. 

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50 minutes ago, Skywalkre said:

Plenty of people had Covid, didn’t die and had mild symptoms. I probably had it and have been unconcerned. Natural immunity is also better immunity than the vaccine based immunity. 

Natural immunity doesn't last forever.

So you want people to play Russian roulette by not getting the jab? Young and heathy people have died from the covid.

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Democrats are very suspicious of President Donald Trump’s big promises to develop and bring to market a vaccine for the coronavirus before the end of the year.

They fear the president and his political appointees at the Department of Health and Human Services will pressure scientists, regulators and drugmakers into releasing an insufficiently safe or effective vaccine in order to help bolster Trump’s reelection chances in November. 

Democrats Fear Trump Will Rush Unsafe Vaccine To Help His Reelection Bid | HuffPost

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9 hours ago, Markus Becker said:

 

Some actual news about the perp. In the private media.

https://www.rtl.de/cms/tankstellen-killer-von-idar-oberstein-sein-vater-versuchte-seine-mutter-zu-erschiessen-4835601.html

 

Your farther committing suicide after trying to kill you mother? I can see how that could throw you off the rails. State News apparently can't. At first glance they don't let the disaster go to waste and continue to demonize any opposition. 

 

This state media?

I can see how that would throw you off the rails, but not half a year before it happened when he tweeted "I'm looking forward to the next war" after two years of spouting earlier fashionable rage items like "re-population of Europe", "fictious man-made climate change" etc., peddled by the same types now complaining they're being unfairly framed for the shooting.

Again I'm sure they're the same ones who worried that the worst effect of the Paris terror attacks would be a fanning of anti-Muslim sentiment, rather than those who tried to find some way, any way, to blame the car rampages of Heidelberg and Münster or the Condor airliner suicide crash on Islamism.

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5 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

when he tweeted "I'm looking forward to the next war" after two years of spouting earlier fashionable rage items like "re-population of Europe", "fictious man-made climate change" etc., peddled by the same types now complaining they're being unfairly framed for the shooting.

I can read the same stuff on a completely regular day of FFZ posting. Nothing to see here. 😁

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