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6 hours ago, bojan said:

So what is your guess where did those deaths come from?

Don't know. The exercise of calculating excess deaths and attributing to COVID is a non sequitur, IMHO.

 

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2 hours ago, Angrybk said:

Very interesting! I stand corrected. AFAIK, no changes in ODs in my AO. Gang bangers have been off the chain last two months, but the local crime town had a record number of homicides last year but it's looking like 2021 will have half or less the homicides. Weird.

I have found stats on suicide attempts up to 2019, but not 2020. 2019 had fewer suicides than 2018; it was trending slowly up, peaked in 2019 in the stats I've seen. Here's something maybe not surprising;

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34138833/

Quote

During July 26-August 22, 2020, the mean weekly number of ED visits for suspected suicide attempts among girls aged 12-17 years was 26.2% higher than during the same period a year earlier; during February 21-March 20, 2021, mean weekly ED visit counts for suspected suicide attempts were 50.6% higher among girls aged 12-17 years compared with the same period in 2019. 

But that is a niche demographic, unlikely to be correlated with general pop.

 

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7 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

Don't know. The exercise of calculating excess deaths and attributing to COVID is a non sequitur, IMHO.

 

It is not that related to a previous discussion as it was a honest question since around here it is a highly political cause and hence vast majority of people commenting it, including doctors are either "it is due the delayed healthcare" or "it is all covid", no middle ground, and my personal experience is that nothing in the life can be easily packaged in just one category.

My personal opinion, with a caveat that I am not a doctor, but I did have some statistics in university and use those daily in my work, I doubt that all 30k excess deaths come from covid, or even majority of them, and think that most are just poorly documented "regular" deaths. But in those 30k, with only marginal increase in two main factors (cardio and cancer) at least some have to be due the covid. Hence none can talk about "overreporting covid deaths", at least in Serbia.

Hence I find making a blanket statement "covid deaths are overreported all over the world" "hospitalization numbers are overblown all over the world" that some posters do to be... more than poor in both sources and taste.

Edited by bojan
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23 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

Of course nobody knows nothing about the perp, so we see many calls not to rush to judgment, instrumentalize the crime, ect, don't we?

No, we don't. It's the exact opposite. What could be the act of a lone mentally distributed person is used to defame an entire, heterogeneous and rather peaceful protest movement. 

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70% of fully vaccinated prisoners caught COVID-19 in a Texas Delta outbreak, the CDC says — but vaccines protected against severe disease.

https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-fully-vaccinated-unvaccinated-texas-prisoner-delta-covid-outbreak-19-2021-9?fbclid=IwAR3FOcHCjxCVOeNPPPuxYtm9E9B-UnAxCi-SnqkCJXBgFky9aAvCMxeEeTA

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5 hours ago, Markus Becker said:

It's different once it becomes official government policy. 

Effectively yes, morally no. If you label anyone from your in-group killing anybody else a regrettable individual case with mental problems, but anybody else killing anyone from your in-group an example of dangerous wider radicalism, you're still a hypocrite. Particularly if members of your in-group cheer the killer as a fighter against oppression. 

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If some individual does this on social media his/her/its reach is very limited. An official organization has a far wider reach. Right now an entire state sponsored propaganda apparatus is going into overdrive spinning a narrative to a national audience. 

Should this turn out to be false like in Chemnitz and Hanau very few will know because they won't correct the narrative just because the facts changed.  

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Good to know that sympathizers of unhinged, political extremist and radical religious shooters, vehicle rampagers and suicide bombers have limited reach in society. Nobody needs to get worked up over the ideological base of violent leftwingers, neo-Nazis and Islamists or the internet fandom for incel mass killers then. I'm sure nobody complaining about political instrumentalization of this shooting ever has, too. 

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I know, I should listen to the people on Telegram going "no sympathy, something had to give eventually, well done". 

As usual, I'm less incensed about various narratives being pushed in callous capitalization of an event than the hypocrisy and double standards of the pushers complaining about each other. 

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I am fascinated by the absurdity of mask policy/mask policing.

My niece was at the food court at her college yesterday with 2 friends, one of whom did not have her mask on. She was reprimanded by one of the ‘lunch ladies’ and required to ‘mask up’ prior to being served.

When the 3 of them got their food they proceeded to a table, took off the masks and proceeded to eat.

Can anyone explain to me how this is rational behavior?

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45 minutes ago, LT Ducky said:

I am fascinated by the absurdity of mask policy/mask policing.

My niece was at the food court at her college yesterday with 2 friends, one of whom did not have her mask on. She was reprimanded by one of the ‘lunch ladies’ and required to ‘mask up’ prior to being served.

When the 3 of them got their food they proceeded to a table, took off the masks and proceeded to eat.

Can anyone explain to me how this is rational behavior?

 

  It's how you teach compliance.  And the sad part is that it's working.

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Virus particles don't transmit via airborne air currents while you're eating, protesting liberal issues, or celebrating a concert or party where the majority of the organizers are left leaning. 

But if you're working out of doors, say like at a container port, you can't be outside or violate the quarantine zone. So crews have to sit on board ship and can't get any sort of shore leave. 

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1 hour ago, LT Ducky said:

I am fascinated by the absurdity of mask policy/mask policing.

My niece was at the food court at her college yesterday with 2 friends, one of whom did not have her mask on. She was reprimanded by one of the ‘lunch ladies’ and required to ‘mask up’ prior to being served.

When the 3 of them got their food they proceeded to a table, took off the masks and proceeded to eat.

Can anyone explain to me how this is rational behavior?

How far apart are the tables?

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The pandemic could be over in a year, according to the CEO of Moderna, Stéphane Bancel, who told a Swiss newspaper that there should be enough vaccines for “everyone on this earth” by “the middle of next year,” while the unvaccinated would largely acquire natural immunity “because the delta variant is so contagious.”

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Worrying, but with facts, and data.

f725be6e309ca459.png

Link to the paper in Toxicology Reports: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221475002100161X

Quote

Abstract

This article examines issues related to COVID-19 inoculations for children. The bulk of the official COVID-19-attributed deaths per capita occur in the elderly with high comorbidities, and the COVID-19 attributed deaths per capita are negligible in children. The bulk of the normalized post-inoculation deaths also occur in the elderly with high comorbidities, while the normalized post-inoculation deaths are small, but not negligible, in children. Clinical trials for these inoculations were very short-term (a few months), had samples not representative of the total population, and for adolescents/children, had poor predictive power because of their small size. Further, the clinical trials did not address changes in biomarkers that could serve as early warning indicators of elevated predisposition to serious diseases. Most importantly, the clinical trials did not address long-term effects that, if serious, would be borne by children/adolescents for potentially decades.

A novel best-case scenario cost-benefit analysis showed very conservatively that there are five times the number of deaths attributable to each inoculation vs those attributable to COVID-19 in the most vulnerable 65+ demographic. The risk of death from COVID-19 decreases drastically as age decreases, and the longer-term effects of the inoculations on lower age groups will increase their risk-benefit ratio, perhaps substantially.

 

Edited by sunday
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