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1 hour ago, DKTanker said:

Did you even listen to the guy for whom you cast your vote?  He said that he's mandating the vaccines so as to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated.

Not just that, he channeled Stuart by asserting a point which directly contradicted the above earlier in the same speech. Specifically that the vaccine protects one well with very little problem. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, rmgill said:

BECOME!!?? It has always been. How obtuse.

With the deliberate obfuscation of treatments and the delay to get a vaccine, it was always a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

Making it just about the unvaccinated is bloody stupid though.  It was and is also a disease of the unhealthy and un-hale, which all diseases are. That is ultimately the issue. Children who get it and are unvaccinated are generally unconcerned. So too anyone under a certain age and even those over who don ‘t have the requisite  co-morbidities.  

Plenty of people had Covid, didn’t die and had mild symptoms. I probably had it and have been unconcerned. Natural immunity is also better immunity than the vaccine based immunity. 

So are you saying that you didn’t get vaccinated because you think you might have gotten Covid?

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1 hour ago, rmgill said:

 

Plenty of people had Covid, didn’t die

I think the number is a little more than 98% that did not die.

I find it difficult to wrap my head around the statement that the vaccinated need to be protected from the un-vaccinated 

I keep asking - what is the threat?

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https://archive.is/2021.09.09-224401/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/09/teenage-boys-risk-vaccines-covid/#selection-1071.1-1071.51
 

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Teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19, a major study has found 

Children who face the highest risk of a “cardiac adverse event” are boys aged between 12 and 15 following two doses of a vaccine, according to new research from the US. 

The findings come as Professor Chris Whitty, England’s chief medical officer, prepares to advise ministers on whether there is a wider benefit to society from vaccinating children.

Last week, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) delivered its long-awaited verdict, saying the “margin of benefit” of jabbing 12- to 15-year-olds was “considered too small” and citing the low risk to healthy children from the virus.

 

 

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https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-09-major-convalescent-plasma-doesnt-ill.html

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A major study has found that convalescent plasma does not reduce the risk of intubation or death for COVID-19 patients. However, the study also revealed that the antibody profile in the blood of people who have had the virus is extremely variable and this may modify the response to the treatment.

 

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A secondary discovery was that convalescent plasma had highly variable donor antibody content due to the highly variable immunological response to the virus. Different antibody profiles in the convalescent plasma were observed to significantly impact whether or not patients experienced intubation or death. Unfavorable antibody profiles, meaning low antibody titres, non-functional antibodies or both, was associated with a higher risk of intubation or death.

So, the implication is that convalescent plasma with a high antibody content does associate with a lower risk of intubation or death?

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CONCOR-1 was an open-label randomized controlled trial of convalescent plasma or standard of care for hospitalized adults with acute COVID-19 respiratory illness. The study excluded COVID-19 patients who did not need to be in the hospital, and COVID-19 hospital patients who needed intubation at the time they were admitted to the hospital.

I would think that convalescent plasma with antibody content would be most effective in the replication phase of the infection, not the inflammatory phase.

 

 

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https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2103784?articleTools=true

This paper seems to show negligible effect of convalescent plasma on high-risk patients in outpatient treatment scenario.

Then again...

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Patients were asked to complete a symptom inventory every other day for 14 days after randomization  by  means  of  either  email  or  telephone.  Patients  were  also  evaluated  in  person  or  by  telephone and by chart review on days 15 and 30 to identify subsequent medical care and adverse events  and  to  repeat  a  symptom  inventory.  The  8-category ordinal scale of illness severity, which was  modified  from  the  Covid-19  Ordinal  Scale  for  Clinical  Improvement  of  the  World  Health  Organization, and the 5-category Covid-19 Out-patient Ordinal Outcome Scale were derived from symptom  inventories  and  subsequent  medical  care.

The measure of outcome appears to be patient subjective qualitative self-diagnosis, not objective and quantitative data from blood tests or pulse-ox levels.

 

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9 hours ago, DKTanker said:

Did you even listen to the guy for whom you cast your vote?  He said that he's mandating the vaccines so as to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated.

Is Sloe Joe implying that the vaccine actually has little efficacy?  That was his implication; it isn't true.  So why did he say it?

Here Peter Grant presents a theory:

https://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2021/09/are-mr-bidens-demands-trojan-horse-to.html
 

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If you look at Mr. Biden's pronouncements yesterday from that perspective, they take on a much more sinister, yet much more believable aspect.  They're Trojan horses.  They aren't there to make us healthier:  they're there to smoke out the patriots among us, those who will resist and actively oppose the Biden administration's plans to dominate and control America forever and crush all opposition.  The powers that be want to expose all such people, so that they're easier to deal with, and so that they can be removed from any position(s) where they might interfere.

 

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13 hours ago, bojan said:

two very light cases and single hospitalization. Hospitilized one was not vaccinated, but had very light case of covid this spring.

One thing i've noticed is I've now hear of several people who first had a mild covid at one point, and when they had it 2nd time, it was severe and ended up hospitalized or in ICU with it. Of course just anecdotal observations of only a few people, mostly second-hand at that, but still, one would expect it the other way around unless there's some particular reason why the person is clearly more vulnerable the second time around , and those should be quite rare cases.

I'm reminded by one japanese study back from 2020 spring / summer when people were still trying to figure out what the thing is. They had identified a couple of mutations already by then, and had concluded that while mostly having the disease provides some immunity, one of the variants (dont recall details, that was before the alpha/delta etc or even the british/indian/brazilian variants hit the news) would promote severe disease if followed by the other. That sounded bit worrying back then but it wasn't in any of the top-tier medical journals and nothing of the kind was reported later so in the end I disegarded it as just another non-repeatable small-scale study failure. That's probably all there is to it, but I am starting to wonder again if there might be a chance there could've been something to it,also... Not sure if anyone has done a study yet on those having had the disease twice and what sort of symptom patterns there are?

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2 hours ago, sunday said:

I'm going with panic inertia, stupidity and virtue signaling over a clever, evil plan. 

The numbers go up, they got to do ... something*. They probably know it won't get past the courts but then it will all be the court's fault. 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Markus Becker said:

I'm going with panic inertia, stupidity and virtue signaling over a clever, evil plan. 

The numbers go up, they got to do ... something*. They probably know it won't get past the courts but then it will all be the court's fault. 

But in the meanwhile, while the courts arrive to a verdict, or, even a decision on if they could judge something, a lot of things could happen.

See the last presidential election, for instance.

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3 hours ago, jmsaari said:

I'm reminded by one japanese study back from 2020 spring / summer when people were still trying to figure out what the thing is. They had identified a couple of mutations already by then, and had concluded that while mostly having the disease provides some immunity, one of the variants (dont recall details, that was before the alpha/delta etc or even the british/indian/brazilian variants hit the news) would promote severe disease if followed by the other. That sounded bit worrying back then but it wasn't in any of the top-tier medical journals and nothing of the kind was reported later so in the end I disegarded it as just another non-repeatable small-scale study failure. That's probably all there is to it, but I am starting to wonder again if there might be a chance there could've been something to it,also... Not sure if anyone has done a study yet on those having had the disease twice and what sort of symptom patterns there are?

Since there is going to be a spectrum of immune system reactions to the first, send, third etc. infection, there will likely be a spectrum of outcomes.

It seems logical that there are going to be people whose prior infection did not result in effective T- and B-cell development, but did develop sensitivity to the virus resulting in increased production of all those cytokines.

AFAICT, researchers are trying to track overall stats (ex. infection pre-vaccine vs post-vaccine) but not tracking before/after of specific patients.

 

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Free:

San Francisco schools report no coronavirus outbreaks; most eligible students in district are fully vaccinated.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/09/10/covid-delta-variant-live-updates/

 

Unvaccinated people were 11 times more likely to die of covid-19, CDC report finds

Moderna vaccine is most effective, says another study, the largest to date in U.S. to assess real-world effectiveness.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/10/moderna-most-effective-covid-vaccine-studies/

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15 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

Teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19, a major study has found 

Which vaccine?

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2 hours ago, sunday said:

But in the meanwhile, while the courts arrive to a verdict, or, even a decision on if they could judge something, a lot of things could happen.

See the last presidential election, for instance.

How long did it take the federal courts to make a the verdicts on RiM and the moratorium? Not long in case of the latter. It was never extended. 

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17 hours ago, Angrybk said:

So are you saying that you didn’t get vaccinated because you think you might have gotten Covid?

You understand how vaccination works right? Innoculation used to be with attenuated live virus. 

I suppose you press the elevator button multiple times because you figure pressing it when its already pressed and lit up makes it come sooner?

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4 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

Since there is going to be a spectrum of immune system reactions to the first, send, third etc. infection, there will likely be a spectrum of outcomes.

 

We really need better diagnostics to gauge the immune response of individual patients. From t-cells to antibodies to the inflammation response. We are at the level of using x-rays to look at soft tissue injuries and conditions and are wondering why we don’t know what precisely is going on...

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If someone asks why is important to have Ethics founded in a solid moral base, this article, along with a primer in the history of Eugenics, could be useful:

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Goldman Sachs asks in biotech research report: ‘Is curing patients a sustainable business model?’

Goldman Sachs analysts attempted to address a touchy subject for biotech companies, especially those involved in the pioneering “gene therapy” treatment: cures could be bad for business in the long run.

“Is curing patients a sustainable business model?” analysts ask in an April 10 report entitled “The Genome Revolution.”

“The potential to deliver ‘one shot cures’ is one of the most attractive aspects of gene therapy, genetically-engineered cell therapy and gene editing. However, such treatments offer a very different outlook with regard to recurring revenue versus chronic therapies,” analyst Salveen Richter wrote in the note to clients Tuesday. “While this proposition carries tremendous value for patients and society, it could represent a challenge for genome medicine developers looking for sustained cash flow.”

Even tangentially, it could help to explain the aversion among the powers that be to Ivermectin and HCQ.

 

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1 hour ago, sunday said:

If someone asks why is important to have Ethics founded in a solid moral base, this article, along with a primer in the history of Eugenics, could be useful:

Even tangentially, it could help to explain the aversion among the powers that be to Ivermectin and HCQ.

 

Matter of time before Pfizer et al develop ketracel-white.

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14 hours ago, sunday said:

If someone asks why is important to have Ethics founded in a solid moral base, this article, along with a primer in the history of Eugenics, could be useful:

Even tangentially, it could help to explain the aversion among the powers that be to Ivermectin and HCQ.

 

Actually, a one size fits all medicine is kind of hard to develop, but if, let's say, a cure for common cold is developed, it will be an instant hit and will be a super sales. As more staff is cured, people in developed countries (and elsewhere) will live longer and demand new medicines for ageing, so the market for bio tech is only likely to get bigger. I have been recomending it as an inverstment for years, and a random ETF I bought has a ROI of 44% (30% due to weakening dollar)

Edited by RETAC21
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https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2784031

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Findings  In this cross-sectional study of 15 307 US nursing homes, approximately 44% of COVID-19 cases and 40% of COVID-19 deaths that occurred before the start of reporting were not reported in the first NHSN submission in sample states, suggesting there were more than 68 000 unreported cases and 16 000 unreported deaths nationally.

 

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A hospital will no longer deliver babies after staffers resign over coronavirus vaccine mandate.

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An Upstate New York hospital announced that it will stop delivering babies this month after several staffers in the maternity department resigned over the hospital system’s coronavirus vaccine mandate.

 

At least six unvaccinated maternity staffers at Lewis County General Hospital have resigned in recent days and seven others remain undecided on whether to get vaccinated, Gerald Cayer, chief executive officer of the Lewis County Health System, said at a Friday news conference. The staff shortage will result in the hospital being “unable to safely staff” the maternity department beginning Sept. 25, he said.

“The number of resignations received leaves us no choice but to pause delivering babies at Lewis County General Hospital,” Cayer said. “It is my hope that the [New York State] Department of Health will work with us in pausing the service rather than closing the maternity department.”  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/12/ny-hospital-babies-vaccine-mandate/

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2 hours ago, JWB said:

A hospital will no longer deliver babies after staffers resign over coronavirus vaccine mandate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/12/ny-hospital-babies-vaccine-mandate/

So the question which needs to be asked, why are so many healthcare professionals hesitant when it comes to the Covid vaccines?

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6 minutes ago, DKTanker said:

So the question which needs to be asked, why are so many healthcare professionals hesitant when it comes to the Covid vaccines?

It is all Trump's fault, of course.

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I stole this from the Australia thread, found it to be hilariously funny but noticed one thing serious to comment on.

The ‘standers’ (my name for persons found standing behind - quite often be-ribboned military types) politicians making pronouncements are masked, however the sign language person is not.

There is a reason for this. In order for the hearing impaired to get a full understanding of what information is being conveyed they must be able to see the signers facial expressions.

So do young children, who are still learning language skills, need to see facial expressions yet the idiots in my state (Pennsylvania) have overridden local school boards and issued a state-wide mandate for all students to be masked.

The legal foundation for this proclamation is very shaky and lawsuits have been filed.

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