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There is no middle ground anymore, because we let extremists on both sides hijack the discussion, mainly because the media sold out, and is completely sensationalist. This lack of a moderate ground is very firm evidence of societal decadence.

This quote is spot on for basically everything these days, not just the virus. Tempted to steal it for the quote area below my posts.

A lot of it is due to the fact that the internet rewards people who yell the most, and there arent very middle of the road types yelling their asses off. Im so tired of the some dumbass says something stupid on Twitter coverage

 

Yes. I avoid Twitter at all cost. It is really the worst imaginable platform for anything resembling discussion (left 'reasonable' out from there as it would be too much to expect anyways).

Also, since the Internet now measures success of media by number of clicks on individual articles, it has taken headline whoring to whole new levels. And we used to think paper tabloids were bad...oh dear.

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There is no middle ground anymore, because we let extremists on both sides hijack the discussion, mainly because the media sold out, and is completely sensationalist. This lack of a moderate ground is very firm evidence of societal decadence.

This quote is spot on for basically everything these days, not just the virus. Tempted to steal it for the quote area below my posts.

A lot of it is due to the fact that the internet rewards people who yell the most, and there arent very middle of the road types yelling their asses off. Im so tired of the some dumbass says something stupid on Twitter coverage

 

Yes. I avoid Twitter at all cost. It is really the worst imaginable platform for anything resembling discussion (left 'reasonable' out from there as it would be too much to expect anyways).

Also, since the Internet now measures success of media by number of clicks on individual articles, it has taken headline whoring to whole new levels. And we used to think paper tabloids were bad...oh dear.

 

I used to think the tabloids were pretty bad. The current state of the internet is that even simple things like recipes find it necessary to shout how amazing they are to generate clicks.

 

Headline whoring is the new journalism.

 

Edited to add: It was probably inevitable, once the internet figured out how many people in the journalism business are just as willing to work at its grunt end for one extreme as they are for another, so long as the check doesn't bounce.

Edited by Nobu
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I would like to see more stats on infections vs deaths though. I'm not trying to be a Corona fanboy but I'm still kinda convinced I got it in early Feb -- severe chills, went unconscious for 18 hours, walked around babbling even more than I usually do etc. Most of my friends who have tested positive have reported the same symptoms.

 

 

The headline statistics out there are all antigen test based, rather than antibody.

 

There are, however, a number of trials being conducted to attempt to estimate the total spread of the infection. The absence of this information is why nobody has any real idea of how dangerous this disease is at a societal level - they only really know that it kills between 5% and 15% of people who have a clinical response severe enough to raise suspicion and thus have a test whilst they are still suffering.

 

I'm not really seeing much in the way of antibody testing statistics - although I had heard that the UK was conducting such tests I haven't seen any results appearing in my news feed.

 

Here's a summary of some studies reviewed in a meta study. I suggest that the conclusions imply that the studies it's, uh, studying, have been rushed.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/25/antibody-test-accuracy-lower-during-first-14-days-of-covid-19-symptoms

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I used to think the tabloids were pretty bad. The current state of the internet is that even simple things like recipes find it necessary to shout how amazing they are to generate clicks.

 

Headline whoring is the new journalism.

You don't say. Just today I saw a headline which screamed how 'next week weather is going to take an unbelievable turn'. Like an idiot I of course clicked it, to learn that the daytime temperatures were going to drop from furnace-like, hellish 24 degrees Celsius, to chilling new Ice Age temperatures of...20 degrees Celsius. If that micro-climate change wipes out the humanity, I can only say it's a relief.

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Currently i don't think closing things would be positive or even would work.

 

Care should be with risk groups not with everyone.

 

 

Summer might kill coronavirus, but only if people stay outside, researchers say

https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/06/25/Summer-might-kill-coronavirus-but-only-if-people-stay-outside-researchers-say/8521593015048/

 

if true this would follow the post i made months ago regarding the better results of combating Influenza outside in fresh air than in buildings.

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Two docs in Honduras may have created a treatment for early-onset covid. Three family members have taken "MAÍZ" and have recovered very quickly, one of then in spite of severe symptoms and comorbidity.

 

edit: one cocktail uses hydroxychloroquine.

 

Article is in Spanish:

 

https://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias-america-latina-52749761#

 

Translation of the relevant part:

 

Catracho method

 

The Honduran doctor Miguel Sierra-Hoffman was the one who devised this strategy in Texas, United States.

 

He did so after observing how after the death in Europe of many patients with covid-19 there were inflammatory and hypercoagulation infections that could end in cases of thrombosis and that, in his opinion, demonstrated that a change in approach to treatment was necessary.

 

Catracho - as Hondurans are colloquially called - is the name chosen for this method whose name was an acrostic made up of the names (in English) of its main components.

 

These are medications such as colchicine, anti-inflammatories, tocilizumab, ivermectin, anticoagulants, and hydroxychloroquine.

 

The latter drug was under study by the World Health Organization (WHO), until it temporarily suspended clinical trials after a report linking it to an increased risk of death and heart disease.

 

Honduras, on the other hand, continues to include it in its treatment, considering that the positive results in the country support its use.

 

In addition, the Catracho method includes techniques such as administration of high-flow oxygen and pronation (putting the patient to bed face down) in order to avoid infections and the need to be intubated.

 

"We didn't really change any medications, we just started giving them from the first day of admission. Instead of giving the steroids on day six or 12, when people were already drowning, we gave them at the beginning," Sierra-Hoffman explains to the BBC. World.

 

After applying it in an experimental group in the five hospitals near Victoria County where she works, the recovered people increased as those who needed intensive care decreased, so Catracho was administered to all patients.

On Tocilizumab:

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/tocilizumab

 

On Ivermectin:

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011

 

MAÍZ is a treatment protocol for less severe patients:

 

For this, the Catracho method is complemented by an outpatient first phase, called the Maíz protocol, and in which the patient with mild symptoms is recommended to use sodium hypochlorite and take various medications to reduce viral load and try to avoid entering a medical Center.

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Race and Covod outcomes in Louisiana. Inc onclusion, with all other factors taken out, race does not change outcome independently:

 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa2011686?query=race_and_medicine

 

Lack of unequal outcomes is racist. Sorry, somebody had to say it.

 

One oddity; why so few Hispanic patients?

 

And why are they looking at respiratory rate rather than pulse ox? AIUI, there is a variation in the ratio of lung capacity to lean body mass (competitive bicyclists talk about stuff like that).

 

"elevated levels of venous lactate, creatinine, or procalcitonin; or low platelet or lymphocyte counts"

how expensive are these blood counts, and how long does it take a hospital to get the data to the clinician?

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A test was done at fourty sites across New York City state back in April. I think it only tested a few thousand people, but the results were that 14% tested positive for antibodies. In New York city, that went up to ~20%. which would mean on the order 1.5 million people.

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Looking at the death curve progression numbers there, which are the best we have to go on, New York (city's) 1.5 million mark in April could very well be 2.5 million now. For all that can be said of what Cuomo and Blasio did wrong, at least they did enough right.

 

Newsom had better get this one right. Getting Cuomo's playbook and improving on it would be a start.

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A test was done at fourty sites across New York City state back in April. I think it only tested a few thousand people, but the results were that 14% tested positive for antibodies. In New York city, that went up to ~20%. which would mean on the order 1.5 million people.

In Moscow, 20% now (based on 90K random tests https://tass.ru/moskva/8820533?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fyandex.ru%2Fnews)

 

Statistics

2523319_original.png

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Yadda yadda

...

 

Submitted my test Tuesday, no reply yet.

...

 

As expected I tested negative for antibodies.

I have had two days off from work with marginally sore throat this spring, then two days off without symptoms, as per the rules.

I have interacted with patients both having symptoms and being positive for covid-19. Co-workers I have worked closely with have been sick, and tested positive.

 

We are a group of about 60 nurses. During spring about 8-10 have been really sick, as in 3 weeks or even more. Out if the sick tested, about 5-6 tested positive for Covid.

Many of us have tested for antibodies, afaik about one have tested positive so far.

 

This is obvoiusly anecdotal, but I still think tests might give false negative, or we are not producing antibodies as expected.

 

Test I took was "Coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 IgG-Ak, LiaisonXL".

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Looking at the death curve progression numbers there, which are the best we have to go on, New York (city's) 1.5 million mark in April could very well be 2.5 million now. For all that can be said of what Cuomo and Blasio did wrong, at least they did enough right.

 

Newsom had better get this one right. Getting Cuomo's playbook and improving on it would be a start.

 

I spent most of my adult life in NYC and would still take a bullet for that place, but I still don't think that Cuomo/de Blasio did a very good job, especially given the nursing home f*ckup at the beginning. New Yorkers certainly did a very good job, borderline Italian-level heroics. I don't respect Newsom as a person very much, but I think he's making the right calls so far.

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Comments interspersed:

 

 

Race and Covod outcomes in Louisiana. Inc onclusion, with all other factors taken out, race does not change outcome independently:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa2011686?query=race_and_medicine

 

Lack of unequal outcomes is racist. Sorry, somebody had to say it.

 

One oddity; why so few Hispanic patients?

 

 

They mostly live further west in the parish, where there is another hospital there. But it would be fascinating to study their outcomes as well.

 

And why are they looking at respiratory rate rather than pulse ox? AIUI, there is a variation in the ratio of lung capacity to lean body mass (competitive bicyclists talk about stuff like that).

 

RR is part of the criteria for sepsis. Pulse Ox is not.

 

Click here to get geeky about sepsis.

 

"elevated levels of venous lactate, creatinine, or procalcitonin; or low platelet or lymphocyte counts"

how expensive are these blood counts, and how long does it take a hospital to get the data to the clinician?

 

 

Platelets and lymphocytes are part of a complete blood count, one of the most common and cheapest labs you can order. Anybody getting admitted is getting a CBC and a comprehensive metabolic panel (electrolytes, glucose, liver enzymes, bilirubin, kidney function markers).

 

That hospital uses Epic, so they could probably whip that up ricky tick.

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Looking at the death curve progression numbers there, which are the best we have to go on, New York (city's) 1.5 million mark in April could very well be 2.5 million now. For all that can be said of what Cuomo and Blasio did wrong, at least they did enough right.

 

Newsom had better get this one right. Getting Cuomo's playbook and improving on it would be a start.

 

I spent most of my adult life in NYC and would still take a bullet for that place, but I still don't think that Cuomo/de Blasio did a very good job, especially given the nursing home f*ckup at the beginning. New Yorkers certainly did a very good job, borderline Italian-level heroics. I don't respect Newsom as a person very much, but I think he's making the right calls so far.

 

 

I think the entire dynamic between Cuomo / De Blasio was horrific. Trumpian levels of pettiness, and both of them were too slow to act when clearly any disease of any kind would quickly burn through a city with that population density. I will say Cuomo course corrected and then provided the kind of leadership that made people feel safer, even if he dropped the ball early on.

 

While we're on the subject of govenors:

 

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/104761818_3948277991931892_7881273637173670699_n.png?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=ysA6OuOQBoEAX-PHGYK&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=7286ce5498159c032657c2d671dfd75f&oe=5F1F8A0A

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While I am inclined to take this picture as indicative of an actual demonstration on the basis of my expectations, I could find no Dr. Richard Davis listed at Providence Sacred Heart Medical Center. Is this a legitimate study by an actual doctor?

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https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios-h.pdf

 

page 4, CDC's current "Best Estimate" model of case fatality ratio; 0.004 for the overall population.

 

0-49 years: 0.0005

50-64 years: 0.002

65+ years: 0.013

 

Symptomatic Case Hospitalization Ratio;

0–49 years: 0.017

50–64 years: 0.045

65+ years: 0.074

Overall: 0.034

 

Data as of May 20.

 

What is rather odd is that much of the material on the CDC's public web server is 1-2 months old.

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