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I must have missed the Federal government's attempts to buy anything in January. Did that occur and I missed it? They were unsuccessful buying equipment in Jan-Feb, despite US companies still producing masks and selling them abroad, as with the specific company I mentioned?

The only thing you are missing is understanding how everything in this statement is beside the point. None of it has anything to do with solving production shortages. Even if Trump had banned all exports of PPEs there would still have been a vast shortage.

 

HHS clarifies US has about 1% of face masks needed for ‘full-blown’ coronavirus pandemic

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/04/hhs-clarifies-us-has-about-1percent-of-face-masks-needed-for-full-blown-pandemic.html

 

 

I specifically gave an example of a US based company that offered to sell its masks locally rather than abroad. You have not given one example of the Trump administration asking for PPE that pre dates March. Action on you.

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Maybe you skipped that in your reading.

 

No offense intended, but that's mostly bullshit. I realize that much of this hasn't been published and that should probably start a whole host of questions as to why not but here you go.

 

 

... Hell, they had military and gov't planes flying medical equipment and PPE around. Oh and on PPE, in early Feb they were requesting PPE manufacturers dramatically ramp up production, which they did. Unfortunately, most of the manufacturing was in China and guess who seized the PPE for their own use?

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Trump's entire reaction to the infection was to wish it would go away and push responsibility down to the individual states. Except for the ineffective China travel ban* and belatedly ordering specific companies to make ventilators after they were largely no longer needed, Trump abdicated all leadership on the issue. He flatly denied any responsibility as well; he basically made it all the governors' problem. He failed to centralize the purchase of PPE and actively conflicted with individual states trying to purchase the same. His inaction probably cost thousands of lives, but more over (from his self centered point of view) will likely cost him the election. Had he prepared for the pandemic in the couple months of time that he had from the first warnings and then taken strong action at the national level in mid March, while also setting a strong example himself (he could be owning the whole mask issue by wearing one and selling MAGA flavored ones on his website), he probably would have come out as the man who saved the US from the disease and easily been re-elected. The US is paying for his completely lack of leadership now and he will pay for it personally in November.

 

*The media unfairly criticized this ban, but I think it was a perfectly realistic response. I consider the ban never the less ineffective because it allowed for US citizens to return directly to regular airports and basically forced them home all at once, routed through international terminals that were now extra over crowded. From infection standpoint, doing nothing probably would have been about as useful. Those flights should have been forced to air bases or otherwise spread out to non international, less busy airports and processed there if there was to be any hope of the measure actually controlling the spread.

No offense intended, but that's mostly bullshit. I realize that much of this hasn't been published and that should probably start a whole host of questions as to why not but here you go.

 

Ventilators; back in early March CDC auditors began visiting hospitals, research institutions, and even veterinary clinics to create a database of existing ventilators. Many of us voluntarily loaned out our own surgical ventilators to surge them out for March and April before the production lines picked up. Additionally, funds were made available and several agreements struck with FEMA and CDC to allow major companies with engineers with ideas on how to double patient existing ventilators or convert over non-usable ventilators to emergency ones. I've hosted some of those engineers from miscellaneous companies throughout industry to use our facilities to experiment, for free. Also they inked emergency deals with multiple manufacturers of the gaskets and tubing for the existing ventilators to make sure that any that broke down could be immediately repaired. Kinda sucks for the suppliers because by early May there was a glut of spare parts and disposables so the price for them has plummeted and probably will stay artificially low for years. Also, they worked with many of the various universities so by March many of the almost residents had their curriculum altered to focus on respiratory medicine and ventilator use in case they needed to surge them into hospitals as technicians.One of my former technicians is a new resident and he went through this. There is also a database that tracks individual ventilator usage hours (I think they have backed way off on the program the past month) to allow them to identify reserve capacity in all the major medical hubs so they could quickly shift them where needed if they started to get overwhelmed. Hell, they had military and gov't planes flying medical equipment and PPE around. Oh and on PPE, in early Feb they were requesting PPE manufacturers dramatically ramp up production, which they did. Unfortunately, most of the manufacturing was in China and guess who seized the PPE for their own use?

 

On the research end the FDA has been very aggressively not just streamlining their approval process they have been very actively providing guidance and research support in a way I have never seen in 30 years. For Covid research they are overtly a partner with R&D. My team is currently conducting pre-clinical Covid vaccine studies and there is no way we should have been that far advanced this quickly. However, the FDA and CDC has been very active in supporting cross communication between companies to share information that I think is unprecedented. Also, I have been told by some former colleagues high up in many of the big Pharma and Biotech companies that the administration has been very active in talking with the various CEO's and BoD's, and I mean Trump and Pence calling them to make requests for increased cooperation and yelling at companies that start to pull back from sharing information with other companies. They have been apparently working the phones, especially back in March and April.

 

I'm not saying that they have been perfect by any means but I am truly frustrated at this narrative that they are all sitting around with their thumbs up their asses. It simply isn't so.

 

 

I would say, that isn't the situation that the administration is projecting. I'd also say it seems like most of the above is retroactive...unless you can put specific dates on those statements.

 

I will also say the CDC fucked up hard on testing and that in particular is NOT TRUMPS FAULT. There, I said it. An organization that I thought should be driven by science and above politics...might have been above politics but was not above screwing the pooch. In particular - the WHO had a test that works. Just fucking use that test, why reinvent the US wheel? But that is not Trump's fault; that is an organization failing that would have happened under anyone who didn't gut the CDC.

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The CDC hasnt been working right since Bush cluelessly merged it with the Department of Homeland Security for what was, as looks now, the most short termist of security considerations. OTOH, its notable the two Presidents since haven't seem fit to fix it either. Trump can claim the 2 Presidents before him didnt make it a priority. OTOH, he had 3 years to fix all that. He presumably didnt see it as a priority either.

 

Its not that anything Trump has done, I dont think he has done much wrong. The real problem is he hasnt done much of anything. Even just wearing a fricking mask would have been something.

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
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Let's be honest, COVID-19 is the training wheel pandemic. It's not the 1918 shit storm, and it's definitely not bubonic plague. But, there could be another one just around the corner, and we better use this one, to start to get ready for that one.

Yes, you are right. I shudder of the thought of what this would be like if it was Ebola. We have had 2 close escapes on that one, I dont suppose we will get a third.

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Maybe you skipped that in your reading.

 

No offense intended, but that's mostly bullshit. I realize that much of this hasn't been published and that should probably start a whole host of questions as to why not but here you go.

 

 

... Hell, they had military and gov't planes flying medical equipment and PPE around. Oh and on PPE, in early Feb they were requesting PPE manufacturers dramatically ramp up production, which they did. Unfortunately, most of the manufacturing was in China and guess who seized the PPE for their own use?

 

 

And when a link or sources are posted, I will acknowledge that post.

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All the respiration equipment they procured out of Russia turned out to be faulty, and had incinerated a number of patients there. Then the Russians claimed a public relations victory by making it sounded like they were helping the US, when the US bought the stuff unseen. Well we have all had a bad Ebay purchase im sure.

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All the respiration equipment they procured out of Russia turned out to be faulty, and had incinerated a number of patients there. Then the Russians claimed a public relations victory by making it sounded like they were helping the US, when the US bought the stuff unseen. Well we have all had a bad Ebay purchase im sure.

 

Which is not nearly as bad as the Chinese selling donated Italian equipment back to the Italians. There's a political system I'd love to emulate.

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Let's be honest, COVID-19 is the training wheel pandemic. It's not the 1918 shit storm, and it's definitely not bubonic plague. But, there could be another one just around the corner, and we better use this one, to start to get ready for that one.

Yes, you are right. I shudder of the thought of what this would be like if it was Ebola. We have had 2 close escapes on that one, I dont suppose we will get a third.

 

 

Ebola Zaire kills so fast, it'll burn out quickly if current quarantine measures were implemented.

 

Adding to its burning out quickly is that it is scary. People will be more afraid of Ebola Zaire vs SARS-CoV-2, so much so people will be going around wearing masks, face shields, long sleeves and pants, gloves, closed footwear because they don't want to have their organs melting and having blood streaming out of their orifices. The fear of Ebola Zaire will prompt people to comply with quarantine measures.

Edited by Corinthian
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There was some stories at the time of the last outbreak in Africa (and they may be completely fictional, its difficult to know) claiming that at one Ebola clinic had a break in and the locals stole bedsheets and even mattresses that had been used by Ebola patients. Id like to think that was made up in a troll factory somewhere, but if true, it illustrates there is a basic human capacity to be wholly incapable of reason in difficult circumstances. Something we have seen many times through the Covid crisis for that matter.

 

You are undoubtedly right so far about it burning out. My fear is we get some kind of mutated variant, perhaps something that transmits like Covid 19 which can go the distance. Which admittedly is probably closer to a Stephen King novel as far as likelihood goes, but still, shit happens. Nobody thought a year ago we would be in the midst of a Pandemic because some munter liked eating Bats and Pangolins. I suppose thats what they call a Black Swan.

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Maybe you skipped that in your reading.

 

No offense intended, but that's mostly bullshit. I realize that much of this hasn't been published and that should probably start a whole host of questions as to why not but here you go.

 

 

... Hell, they had military and gov't planes flying medical equipment and PPE around. Oh and on PPE, in early Feb they were requesting PPE manufacturers dramatically ramp up production, which they did. Unfortunately, most of the manufacturing was in China and guess who seized the PPE for their own use?

 

 

And when a link or sources are posted, I will acknowledge that post.

 

...and despite niflegal's professional involvement in the Covid business you're dismissing his personal accounts, because...?

 

I mean, I'm all for healthy skepticism, but it should be equally applied to uncorrobated claims that the government did nothing at all, which doesn't sound very credible TBH, unless you want to believe it.

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You're describing the "Outbreak" scenario.

 

 

Probably, ive not seen it. Not that different in the movie Contagion as far as a scenario goes I guess.

 

The point is, we dont really know how likely these events are. Its said by climate change campaigners that the more we go into the jungles, or the more we eat strange things that come from jungles as human kind presumably expands and exploits the jungles in the years to come, we are likely going to see the emergence of other strange diseases we have never seen before. Its impossible to know how likely that is, other than what we are suffering know we thought last year was unlikely, or presumably we would have prepared for it a lot better. The worst we envisaged up to this point was another global flu pandemic like 1918.

 

All that can be said is that in the past 20 years, we have had a series of near pandemics we have just about dodged, whether they are Bird Flu or Ebola. We probably shouldn't feel so self assured we arent going to get anything worse.

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Let's be honest, COVID-19 is the training wheel pandemic. It's not the 1918 shit storm, and it's definitely not bubonic plague. But, there could be another one just around the corner, and we better use this one, to start to get ready for that one.

Yes, you are right. I shudder of the thought of what this would be like if it was Ebola. We have had 2 close escapes on that one, I dont suppose we will get a third.

 

 

Ebola Zaire kills so fast, it'll burn out quickly if current quarantine measures were implemented.

 

Adding to its burning out quickly is that it is scary. People will be more afraid of Ebola Zaire vs SARS-CoV-2, so much so people will be going around wearing masks, face shields, long sleeves and pants, gloves, closed footwear because they don't want to have their organs melting and having blood streaming out of their orifices. The fear of Ebola Zaire will prompt people to comply with quarantine measures.

 

 

 

The scary virus is not one that kills more, but one that does what COVID-19 does in children. Then you are going to see lockdowns implemented in earnest and the economy tanking for good.

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You're describing the "Outbreak" scenario.

 

Probably, ive not seen it. Not that different in the movie Contagion as far as a scenario goes I guess.

 

The topic is similar, the execution is very different. Contagion was more like a study and as such prescient but only moderately entertaining. Outbreak is, I think, the better thriller movie as far as its entertainment qualities are concerned. Plays with a worst case germ that has a long incubation time, spreads by air/aerosol, and is a haemmoragic fever with a very high lethality. Probably a less-than-likely combination, and the solution of the film is, well, "not very realistic" to put it mildly. Still, of all the movies that revolve around a scientific problem, it's still in the lower quarter of cringeworthiness where "The Andromeda Strain" probably marks the gold standard, and "Armageddon" and that abomination of restarting the Earth's magnetic field trigger in me the reflex to KILL IT KILL IT WITH FIRE.

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Did I hear someone say this was a higher daily casualty rate than WW2?

 

No, higher death rate, but then not all days in WW2 were marked by hand to hand combat, so the comparison is apples to oranges, in different continents ar different time of the day

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Did I hear someone say this was a higher daily casualty rate than WW2?

 

No, WW1. We didn't have a big role to play in that one.

 

More on the just wear a mask and don't bunch up inside theme:

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/24/883017035/what-contact-tracing-may-tell-about-cluster-spread-of-the-coronavirus?fbclid=IwAR33SWQkhJXDdPCxZj_bvTP-7tIhrOT8nMQ9B6kVaMl6fl7e_PA0O3YmqVQ

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Maybe you skipped that in your reading.

 

No offense intended, but that's mostly bullshit. I realize that much of this hasn't been published and that should probably start a whole host of questions as to why not but here you go.

 

 

... Hell, they had military and gov't planes flying medical equipment and PPE around. Oh and on PPE, in early Feb they were requesting PPE manufacturers dramatically ramp up production, which they did. Unfortunately, most of the manufacturing was in China and guess who seized the PPE for their own use?

 

 

And when a link or sources are posted, I will acknowledge that post.

 

...and despite niflegal's professional involvement in the Covid business you're dismissing his personal accounts, because...?

 

I mean, I'm all for healthy skepticism, but it should be equally applied to uncorrobated claims that the government did nothing at all, which doesn't sound very credible TBH, unless you want to believe it.

 

 

A personal account is still anecdotal regardless of how professional the individual is. I mean no disrespect and I value his opinion.

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Maybe you skipped that in your reading.

 

 

No offense intended, but that's mostly bullshit. I realize that much of this hasn't been published and that should probably start a whole host of questions as to why not but here you go.

 

 

... Hell, they had military and gov't planes flying medical equipment and PPE around. Oh and on PPE, in early Feb they were requesting PPE manufacturers dramatically ramp up production, which they did. Unfortunately, most of the manufacturing was in China and guess who seized the PPE for their own use?

 

And when a link or sources are posted, I will acknowledge that post.

This might do.

 

In late Jan, FDA said they didn't have right stuff flr the virus but got to work on how they can.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-announces-key-actions-advance-development-novel-coronavirus-medical-countermeasures

 

Some updates on their activites run through February and onwards on pages around 64.

https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/counterterrorism-and-emerging-threats/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19

Edited by JasonJ
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